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  • #16
    I wonder about the.cultural context of when James wrote about seeing your brother in need and what happens if you don't help. I drive past many panhandlers every day on the main street in town. I'm sure at least some are Christians. If I take that verse literally, it might imply not giving them all money denies the faith. Yet there are so many...

    (Side note - I never carry cash on me.)
    Last edited by KingsGambit; 12-21-2021, 05:01 PM.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #17
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I wonder about the.cultural context of when James wrote about seeing your brother in need and what happens if you don't help. I drive past many panhandlers every day on the main street in town. I'm sure at least some are Christians. If I take that verse literally, it might imply not giving them all money denies the faith. Yet there are so many...

      (Side note - I never carry cash on me.)
      I think that verse is referring to within the context of a church or Christian community and is not saying that it is a sin to not give to a beggar who might happen to be a Christian, because honestly, how could you know?
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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      • #18
        Like if you know someone at church needs help and just offer a platitude instead of asking if you can help.
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

          I think that verse is referring to within the context of a church or Christian community and is not saying that it is a sin to not give to a beggar who might happen to be a Christian, because honestly, how could you know?
          I agree. And even if they are Christian, that doesn't automatically cease the possibility they have a drug or alcohol problem, and that giving them money would only make the situation worse. Like you said, the only way you could possibly know is if you were in close fellowship with them.
          "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

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          • #20
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            I wonder about the.cultural context of when James wrote about seeing your brother in need and what happens if you don't help. I drive past many panhandlers every day on the main street in town. I'm sure at least some are Christians. If I take that verse literally, it might imply not giving them all money denies the faith. Yet there are so many...

            (Side note - I never carry cash on me.)
            The thing about "seeing your brother in need"... we know for a fact that many panhandlers are actually grifters making tidy sums of money. I have no guilt whatsoever not 'helping' them.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #21
              Side note: There's apparently a new scam where people are pretending to play musical instruments (violins are the main one) on street corners for money... but are faking playing and playing a recording.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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              • #22
                Do they have actual violins? Because if they can afford a violin...........


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  Side note: There's apparently a new scam where people are pretending to play musical instruments (violins are the main one) on street corners for money... but are faking playing and playing a recording.
                  Interesting! My wife just came home from shopping with our granddaughter, and there was a lady there playing a violin for money "for school and bills". I wonder....
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    The thing about "seeing your brother in need"... we know for a fact that many panhandlers are actually grifters making tidy sums of money. I have no guilt whatsoever not 'helping' them.
                    There are a lot of regulars around my city, and I'm suspicious of "homeless" people who always seem to have a regular change of clean, season appropriate clothing.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      There are a lot of regulars around my city, and I'm suspicious of "homeless" people who always seem to have a regular change of clean, season appropriate clothing.
                      Yeah, that's why I focus on the help center I support, because we get to know the people and their story.

                      Years ago, one of them told me "you may see my glory, but you don't know my story". We have repeated that a LOT!!!!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                      • #26
                        This has been an interesting discussion. I'm sorry I'm coming late to it.

                        Regarding when to give, let me point out Jesus saying, "Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back." - Matthew 5:42 and Luke 6:30. The English Standard Version actually uses 'begs' instead of 'asks.'

                        Begging as a profession is certainly not new to our age. I'm sure Jesus encountered professional beggars and maybe more than us since there was no welfare system back then. At a minimum, I think Jesus is telling us not to be too tight with our money.
                        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          It all depends on the details.

                          I was once fully prepared to give money to an obvious alcoholic who would have certainly spent the cash on alcohol. He was standing in front of a liquor store and shaking, which looked like DTs to me. He never asked me for anything, but was looking pathetically at everyone going into the store. I thought "When I come out I will give him some cash because he's hurting, and probably too proud to beg." But before I got there, the guy ahead of me gave him money. It was just the sight of him that struck me. He needed to get off the alcohol but this wasn't the time for it.

                          Anyway, I've been scammed before, based on what I observed afterwards. It all depends on the circumstance - and it depends on what my particular situation is at that moment, too.
                          I'm not sure we're responsible for the results of our giving. I think about the verse that says, "I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused it to grow." 1 Corinthians 3:6, I think we're only responsible for giving and not what happens afterwards. Of course, this means not to give foolishly or too an obvious fraud. But in a case where I'm not certain, I think it's better to give and let God sort it out.
                          "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                          "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                            I'm not sure we're responsible for the results of our giving. I think about the verse that says, "I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused it to grow." 1 Corinthians 3:6, I think we're only responsible for giving and not what happens afterwards. Of course, this means not to give foolishly or too an obvious fraud. But in a case where I'm not certain, I think it's better to give and let God sort it out.
                            I think that would only apply if we were giving in good faith. For instance, I mentioned earlier about a woman who said she was hungry but refused my offer of food and asked for money instead. In that situation, I don't feel it would have been in good faith to give her money.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              I think that would only apply if we were giving in good faith. For instance, I mentioned earlier about a woman who said she was hungry but refused my offer of food and asked for money instead. In that situation, I don't feel it would have been in good faith to give her money.
                              I have a friend who came to the US from Pakistan and drove a cab, eventually owning FIVE cabs. He was "touched" by the poor people under the bridges in Houston -- until he made a special effort to stop and by hamburgers for them, and they cussed him out and threw the bags of food at his cab.

                              I don't really expect that Jesus would want us to encourage dishonest people like that. And Paul said very clearly - if they don't work, they shouldn't eat. (assuming, of course, they're capable of working)

                              Scripture Verse: 2 Thess

                              3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."11 We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies.12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat.

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              I think you have to take the "balance" of what is said in scripture.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                I have a friend who came to the US from Pakistan and drove a cab, eventually owning FIVE cabs. He was "touched" by the poor people under the bridges in Houston -- until he made a special effort to stop and by hamburgers for them, and they cussed him out and threw the bags of food at his cab.

                                I don't really expect that Jesus would want us to encourage dishonest people like that. And Paul said very clearly - if they don't work, they shouldn't eat. (assuming, of course, they're capable of working)

                                Scripture Verse: 2 Thess

                                3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."11 We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies.12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat.

                                © Copyright Original Source



                                I think you have to take the "balance" of what is said in scripture.
                                I quite agree that we should take the balance of what is said in Scripture. Unfortunately, it's human nature to go to one side or the other instead of finding the balance.
                                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                                Comment

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