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  • #46
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    What about businessmen who see it as an opportunity to network and establish contacts?
    Having gone to a men's breakfast and subjected to a sales pitch by a business owner, I get your point. I suppose it's how aggressively he's selling to church members or advertising his membership. If he's low key about it and providing honest service, I guess it would be ok. Trying to exploit the church to get business or he provides poor service would be a big problem. I suppose the church could have legal liability if it appears the church is endorsing his business.

    Personal note one: I avoid a business that claims it's Christian owned. I've been messed up too many times by a so-called Christian business.

    Personal note two: I watch the show American Greed and one episode was about an investment con man who defrauded churches and church members. The sad part was the church leadership would give him a platform for his sales pitch. No matter how good the business is, I think it's out of bounds for a church to actively promote a business.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

    Comment


    • #47
      I think the key here is publicly denying Christian values. I imagine that week would do the same thing for somebody who was in a church and committed a crime that was all over the news, or who got involved with the Ku Klux Klan. Politicians come to mind here because they are public figures, and by definition have more eyes on them.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        What about businessmen who see it as an opportunity to network and establish contacts?
        As long as they're not disrupting the fellowship, there's a chance they might get saved.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

          Having gone to a men's breakfast and subjected to a sales pitch by a business owner, I get your point. I suppose it's how aggressively he's selling to church members or advertising his membership. If he's low key about it and providing honest service, I guess it would be ok. Trying to exploit the church to get business or he provides poor service would be a big problem. I suppose the church could have legal liability if it appears the church is endorsing his business.

          Personal note one: I avoid a business that claims it's Christian owned. I've been messed up too many times by a so-called Christian business.

          Personal note two: I watch the show American Greed and one episode was about an investment con man who defrauded churches and church members. The sad part was the church leadership would give him a platform for his sales pitch. No matter how good the business is, I think it's out of bounds for a church to actively promote a business.
          Yeah, remember when there was the A L Williams Insurance thing? "Buy Term and Invest the Rest" - I was HOUNDED by people who wanted me to sign up to be a sales person, but I adamantly rejected that because my "clients" would almost always be church members. They made it look really appealing at the time.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            I think the key here is publicly denying Christian values. I imagine that week would do the same thing for somebody who was in a church and committed a crime that was all over the news, or who got involved with the Ku Klux Klan. Politicians come to mind here because they are public figures, and by definition have more eyes on them.
            There's a difference between "committed a crime" and living a criminal lifestyle or committing the same acts over and over.

            One act that can fall into both would be DUI/DWIs. They can be a single act or something someone gets in trouble for multiple times.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Yeah, remember when there was the A L Williams Insurance thing? "Buy Term and Invest the Rest" - I was HOUNDED by people who wanted me to sign up to be a sales person, but I adamantly rejected that because my "clients" would almost always be church members. They made it look really appealing at the time.
              Sorry, no. I must have missed or been too young for AL Williams.
              "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

              "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                Sorry, no. I must have missed or been too young for AL Williams.
                It was actually some great financial strategies which I employed without becoming an A L Williams customer - but the fact is that I got "hit on" a lot to represent this product or program or that one simply because I had a large "contact base" over which I had influence.

                I'm fundamentally opposed to getting gain in such a manner. Wife feels the same way - no Tupperware or Mary Kay or anything like that.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  There's a difference between "committed a crime" and living a criminal lifestyle or committing the same acts over and over.

                  One act that can fall into both would be DUI/DWIs. They can be a single act or something someone gets in trouble for multiple times.
                  That's true. On a pastoral level, with a DUI, it would be good for the pastor or an elder to ask if they may be struggling with a drinking problem, but it's not something it would be appropriate to drag someone to the front of the congregation over.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    It was actually some great financial strategies which I employed without becoming an A L Williams customer - but the fact is that I got "hit on" a lot to represent this product or program or that one simply because I had a large "contact base" over which I had influence.

                    I'm fundamentally opposed to getting gain in such a manner. Wife feels the same way - no Tupperware or Mary Kay or anything like that.
                    Avon never called?

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Avon never called?
                      They tried - wife always declined. She'd buy, but not sell.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                        That's true. On a pastoral level, with a DUI, it would be good for the pastor or an elder to ask if they may be struggling with a drinking problem, but it's not something it would be appropriate to drag someone to the front of the congregation over.
                        This is something I always stress in my role as "intentional interim pastoral advisor" - yeah, that's a thing - that the committee calling a pastor do a sufficient background check, including asking if there would be anything that could surface as an embarrassment in the future. While we can always be forgiving when there's an "ooooops", it's harder to be forgiving when there's intentional misleading.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          They tried - wife always declined. She'd buy, but not sell.
                          I'm now starting to understand why you never let Jake sell Amay.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            I'm now starting to understand why you never let Jake sell Amay.
                            Jake and I have an agreement - what I don't know can't hurt him.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              Jake and I have an agreement - what I don't know can't hurt him.
                              Dogs are like little kids. What they can get away with doesn't count.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Dogs are like little kids. What they can get away with doesn't count.
                                I just wish I was half the man he thought I was.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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