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Knowing for sure one is going to heaven

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  • Knowing for sure one is going to heaven

    The reason I accepted Christ, was on the premise one can know for sure. If one cannot, then Christianity is no different in the end than any other religion.
    17
    God who saves does the keeping.
    47.06%
    8
    We must keep the faith to the end in order to be saved.
    52.94%
    9
    Last edited by 37818; 03-11-2014, 03:11 PM.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  • #2
    this poll doesn't really make sense, IMO.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by phat8594 View Post
      this poll doesn't really make sense, IMO.
      What is it that does not make sense to you? No one knows when they will die. In my view the only way one can know for sure one can go to heaven (rest) is if God who saves is the God who keeps those whom He saves. Does that help?
      . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

      Comment


      • #4
        Both are scripturally stated as necessary for our inheriting the Kingdom of God.
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        Stephen R. Donaldson

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        • #5
          He seems to be asking is the work of remaining saved that of God or of Man.

          My answer is that God provides the means and the grace of salvation. If it is possible to lose salvation, it isn't a matter of mere error but a conscious, willful decision to reject God altogether - and I'm not sure it is even possible (seems unlikely one truly saved would make that decision - but that opens yet another can of theological worms). As far as 'maintaining' or, more precisely, working out one's salvation, it's Man's will but God's grace - we have a part but only in the choosing. God does all the actual work. Face it, humans don't do those kinds of work well at all. As a result, I don't think it would even be possible to 'stay' saved without God's intervention and grace.

          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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          • #6
            I don't think God gives out "get out of hell free" cards.

            Source: Phil 2:12-13 NKJV

            12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

            © Copyright Original Source



            We can be confident that God is working in us, but that doesn't mean we can assume salvation without putting in any effort of our own.

            Source: Luke 12:37-38

            37 Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them. 38 And if he should come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

            © Copyright Original Source



            We can't just assume God will keep us ready, or Jesus' words here have little meaning. We need to make sure we are vigilant and prepared for His return (or our death).
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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            • #7
              Originally posted by phat8594 View Post
              this poll doesn't really make sense, IMO.
              I must agree. The two choices are not mutually exclusive, and the issue of having eternal life (which is what the answers address) is different from the issue of knowing whether you have it (which is what the question asks about).

              Comment


              • #8
                One of the paradoxes of Scripture is that we are to be ever vigilant about where we stand (2 Corinthians 13:5, along with many other verses) but at the same time, there is an expectation that we feel confident about our own salvation (1 John 5:13-14). Trying to "smooth this out" misses the point, in my view - both stances are true but represent different emphases.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Teallaura
                  If it is possible to lose salvation, it isn't a matter of mere error but a conscious, willful decision to reject God altogether - and I'm not sure it is even possible (seems unlikely one truly saved would make that decision - but that opens yet another can of theological worms).
                  If you aren't sure it's possible, then what makes you even suggest it? All the people who twist verses to teach that you can lose your "eternal" life also teach that it is possible to lose it accidentally, or through strong temptation. No church has ever taught that the only people who can lose their "eternal" life are those who willfully and freely chose to forfeit it. And there is no Bible verse that even comes remotely close to teaching such a concept.

                  This concept -- intentionally choosing to go to hell -- is basically just a philosophical idea that you thought up.

                  Originally posted by Bad Pig
                  I don't think God gives out "get out of hell free" cards.
                  Revelation 22:17
                  And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RBerman
                    The two choices are not mutually exclusive, and the issue of having eternal life (which is what the answers address) is different from the issue of knowing whether you have it (which is what the question asks about).
                    John 11
                    25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27 She saith unto him, [I am not really sure, Lord; I don't want to be overly confident and later turn out not to be one of God's fraudulent elect]

                    Hebrews 11
                    6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is [possibly] a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

                    1 John 5
                    11 And this is the record, that God hath [probably but not necessarily] given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that [think that you] believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may [hope that, but not be sure about whether,] ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Those who endure to the end shall be saved, which is indicative that enduring is not guaranteed.
                      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                        If you aren't sure it's possible, then what makes you even suggest it? All the people who twist verses to teach that you can lose your "eternal" life also teach that it is possible to lose it accidentally, or through strong temptation. No church has ever taught that the only people who can lose their "eternal" life are those who willfully and freely chose to forfeit it. And there is no Bible verse that even comes remotely close to teaching such a concept.

                        This concept -- intentionally choosing to go to hell -- is basically just a philosophical idea that you thought up.



                        Revelation 22:17
                        And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
                        Did you totally miss the OP? Jesus says that He doesn't lose what the Father gives Him - so 'oops' seems extremely illogical as a means of losing salvation. OBP cited a couple verses that may mean salvation can be lost (I don't agree but it can legitimately be read that way) so the concept of losing salvation is derived from Scripture - and the two together would indicate that it tain't an easy thing to do.

                        Theology - not just for breakfast.

                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          One Bad Pig believes in salvation by works. Do you really think he would agree with the theory that it is difficult to lose salvation? SeanD sure didn't make it sound very difficult to lose. My point is that you can potentially read the Bible to teach that salvation is impossible to lose, or that it is fairly easy to lose. To claim that it is possible, but extremely difficult, seems like a terribly unrealistic view. It is a view based more on philosophy ("How can God take away my freedom to prevent me from going to hell if I really want to?") as opposed to scripture.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I believe salvation can be lost (and no, this does not equate to works salvation), but I disagree with the notion that this is difficult, and I think Obsidian is right to point out that this is not a tenable position. It could be lost through gradual apathy over time (the parable of the foolish virgins), with quite literally no effort. It can be easy to allow oneself to be dulled by the allures of the world if one does not continually feed their faith (again, this feeding of the faith is NOT the means by which salvation is earned).
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              means by which salvation is earned).
                              1) You think we must earn salvation. 2) Possibly you think not just any way to earn salvation will do.
                              The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                              [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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