Pop preachers and their heretical beliefs

[tabibito]

Heresy Hunters are so comical. Why do they always go for the shiny, juicy, low-hanging fruit? As a typical Pente-hostile Lutheran, Chris is obviously, by his own words, dismissive of all Pentecostal and Charismatic beliefs. Why doesn't he target people influential in academia? If his goal is really to protect the Church, shouldn't he target those who are teaching the next generation of leaders? For example...

Craig Keener.

Wayne Grudem. (PDF)

The late Gordon Fee.

Sam Storms. (In regard to so-called "false" prophecies, see esp. pp. 125-6 of Practicing the Power.)

Ben Witherington III in Conflict and Community in Corinth, p. 286.

I'll give them a more thorough reading when opportunity permits, but right now Grudem's assessment seems to have quite a few questionable assumptions. Not least among them is the claim that
Jesus introduced "apostle" as a new term for a "prophet."

[NorrinRadd]

I'll give them a more thorough reading when opportunity permits, but right now Grudem's assessment seems to have quite a few questionable assumptions. Not least among them is the claim that
Jesus introduced "apostle" as a new term for a "prophet."

Yeah, that's odd. I skimmed to the part where he was talking about the "gift" of prophecy in the NT, and the different "rules" from OT prophecy.

One could kinda sorta make sense of that claim about apostles if pretty much all you had to go on was Eph. 2:20. One could interpret that as Prophets for the OT, Apostles for the NT, meeting at Jesus. But that doesn't make sense of the other places where both "apostles" and "prophets" occur together.

[rogue06]

Several times now, while glancing at thread titles, I've seen this as "Pop preachers and their hysterical beliefs."

[Faber]

Several times now, while glancing at thread titles, I've seen this as "Pop preachers and their hysterical beliefs."

Well, they are that, also.

[NorrinRadd]

Several times now, while glancing at thread titles, I've seen this as "Pop preachers and their hysterical beliefs."

I'd prefer that title, since a lot of them, wacky as they are, do not rise to the level of "heresy."

[tabibito]

Yeah, that's odd. I skimmed to the part where he was talking about the "gift" of prophecy in the NT, and the different "rules" from OT prophecy.

One could kinda sorta make sense of that claim about apostles if pretty much all you had to go on was Eph. 2:20. One could interpret that as Prophets for the OT, Apostles for the NT, meeting at Jesus. But that doesn't make sense of the other places where both "apostles" and "prophets" occur together.

More a matter of judges (and perhaps kings, over God's objections) for the Old Testament, apostles for the New, I think.

[Cow Poke]

Several times now, while glancing at thread titles, I've seen this as "Pop preachers and their hysterical beliefs."

That's hysterical!

[The Melody Maker]

Those same false preachers also teach that believers ought to be able to handle snakes and drink poison without getting hurt, and so many people actually try it deliberately -- and fatally. It would be "hysterical" if it wasn't so tragic.

[mossrose]

Those same false preachers also teach that believers ought to be able to handle snakes and drink poison without getting hurt, and so many people actually try it deliberately -- and fatally. It would be "hysterical" if it wasn't so tragic.

Yeah. That last bit of Mark that wasn’t in the original has caused quite a lot of this sort of thing over the years.

[tabibito]

Yeah. That last bit of Mark that wasn’t in the original has caused quite a lot of this sort of thing over the years.

If the people concerned considered that Jesus didn't turn stones into bread, nor jump from a high place, they might apply that perspective to the passage in Mark (most of which, by the way, is embedded in the other gospels).

[NorrinRadd]

Those same false preachers also teach that believers ought to be able to handle snakes and drink poison without getting hurt, and so many people actually try it deliberately -- and fatally. It would be "hysterical" if it wasn't so tragic.

"[C]essationism is at least heterodox and unbiblical."

The clowns at "Messed up Church" are more messed up than any of those wackos they showed in the video.

"Nice" Christians like to say we need "unity." I think we may really need a new "Great Schism." Messed up Church, Wretched Radio, Justin Peters, and the rest of those Pente-hostile mopes clearly believe that all "continuationists" are seriously in error, and I'm with Dr. Olsen in what I quoted above. Instead of just calling out "NAR" and "Word-Faith," let them start calling out my whole side, in video after video. Name names. Craig Keener, Sam Storms, Ben Witherington, Lucy Peppiat, Cherith Fee Nordling, Wayne Grudem...

Regarding the "traditional Christians have always believed" jazz, see the "kenosis" threads.

Regarding the content of the "long ending" of Mark, those who view it as a later addition often consider it represented what was actually commonly observed among "believers" in the Early Church. The "serpents" thing was literal, with Acts 28 as an example. The account in the apocryphal "Acts of John" was probably an example of the "drink deadly poison" thing.

Regarding Luke 10, the context suggests "serpents and scorpions" in that context were metaphorical, but that's not particularly important.

[NorrinRadd]

Ok...images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBTn7VoIIXqpIdqUUve354M5OYo1CbbuleXPoK0gJSpA&usqp=CAU&ec=48665701.jpg


Can someone point me to a specific example of Heidi Baker or Randy Clark saying something outright "heretical"? I've been looking around online for a couple of days, so far mainly for stuff about Heidi. I've watched videos by Rosey from F4F. So far, I have not heard him use the words "heresy" or "heretical." He accuses her (and really, virtually all Pentecostals) of "disobeying" 1 Cor. 12:30 and 14:27-28; I'm not sure whether his doing so is intentional slander, or just ignorance of different hermeneutical approaches. In any case, even if his hermeneutical approach is correct, her/our "error" would not qualify as heresy, so at least he doesn't go that far.

Other than that, I've seen him mock her a lot -- and frankly, I'm not totally comfortable with her style -- but so far, I have not found him pointing out any particular teaching as "heresy."

[The Melody Maker]

"The Pharisee stood and was praying thus to himself, `God, I thank Thee that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax-gatherer.

[mossrose]

Truly awful.

[The Melody Maker]

So one heretical belief that the pop preachers profusely propagate is that those who follow Christ should do "greater miracles" than He did, which is a terrible twisting of that part of Scripture:

That said, here's a "grater thing."

Now I can't but wonder whether there's a roguetech variant in keeping with its style.