Announcement

Collapse

Christianity 201 Guidelines

orthodox Christians only.

Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.

The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

COVID-19 & Church Membership

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by nico View Post

    My church's senior pastor was hospitalized, and a worship leader just passed away. Another pastor wasn't hospitalized but did go in for an antibody infusion.

    Are we saying that this is merely a conscience issue? It seems that at least the "at-risk" category of people have reason to be tentative. Is the lack of action to protect them passive discrimination? We discriminate between children and adults with nursery & preschool regulations in order to protect them. What's the difference? What comes to mind here is maybe CDC guidelines vs established regulation, news media narratives, and overall politicization of these issues.
    "Discriminating" between children and adults is quite obvious - you can tell by looking which is which. You can't look at somebody and know they are vaccinated or not.

    This whole vax-or-not has become so intensely political that it is divisive by its very nature. Our government has made it worse by pretty much making unvaccinated people second class citizens, and declaring war, or sorts, on them.

    So, yeah, those what believe they are "at risk" are free to stay home, or wear masks, or sit in a side section away from the majority of the people, etc.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

      "Discriminating" between children and adults is quite obvious - you can tell by looking which is which. You can't look at somebody and know they are vaccinated or not.

      This whole vax-or-not has become so intensely political that it is divisive by its very nature. Our government has made it worse by pretty much making unvaccinated people second class citizens, and declaring war, or sorts, on them.

      So, yeah, those what believe they are "at risk" are free to stay home, or wear masks, or sit in a side section away from the majority of the people, etc.
      I think the key is the membership needs to be allowed to self-segregate as oppose to being segregated by the leadership. The other church members must respect their choice to do so. As I said previously, I don't think the Bible supports church leadership actively segregating members.
      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

        I think the key is the membership needs to be allowed to self-segregate as oppose to being segregated by the leadership.
        EGGzackly - and, fortunately, we have room to do that, and an understanding congregation that enables it.

        The other church members must respect their choice to do so. As I said previously, I don't think the Bible supports church leadership actively segregating members.
        So far, it's been totally voluntary, and I don't see that changing.

        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          "Discriminating" between children and adults is quite obvious - you can tell by looking which is which. You can't look at somebody and know they are vaccinated or not.

          This whole vax-or-not has become so intensely political that it is divisive by its very nature. Our government has made it worse by pretty much making unvaccinated people second class citizens, and declaring war, or sorts, on them.

          So, yeah, those what believe they are "at risk" are free to stay home, or wear masks, or sit in a side section away from the majority of the people, etc.
          Fair enough in terms of vaccination status. I agree with all your points.

          Then what do we say to good standing, God fearing members who are very tentative about COVID? They have the option, at least for now, to "participate" online, but is that really OK? Is it better for other members to comply with self identifying their vaccination status for discriminating purposes in order to welcome these members back in or do they need to get over their fears and come back to church at their own risk? Or are we saying they are neither good members nor God fearing?

          I feel like we're saying either:

          A) I accept that COVID-19 is as deadly as they say and you're an at-risk person but we won't do anything to help you
          B) COVID-19 is an overblown disease and the guidelines are wrong. I reject everything that says otherwise.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by nico View Post

            Fair enough in terms of vaccination status. I agree with all your points.

            Then what do we say to good standing, God fearing members who are very tentative about COVID? They have the option, at least for now, to "participate" online, but is that really OK? Is it better for other members to comply with self identifying their vaccination status for discriminating purposes in order to welcome these members back in or do they need to get over their fears and come back to church at their own risk? Or are we saying they are neither good members nor God fearing?
            In a sense, I see them as "weaker brothers" who do not need to be condemned, but encouraged.

            I feel like we're saying either:

            A) I accept that COVID-19 is as deadly as they say and you're an at-risk person but we won't do anything to help you
            We have our services on both Facebook and Youtube, and keep in touch with them by phone, cards, texts...

            B) COVID-19 is an overblown disease and the guidelines are wrong. I reject everything that says otherwise.
            I think there's at least a third option....

            That we know that you have strong feelings about COVID, and we understand that, but we believe we have the situation under control, and most of our fellowship is back in "in person" worship. Please join us as soon as you feel comfortable doing so.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              In a sense, I see them as "weaker brothers" who do not need to be condemned, but encouraged.
              I'm not comfortable calling this a stronger-weaker brother issue. There doesn't seem to be any faith issue involved with your opinion on Covid. This seems to be more a Christians with a different opinion on the very non-essentials of the faith so the question is how do we lovingly deal with each other.
              "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

              "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                I'm not comfortable calling this a stronger-weaker brother issue.
                That's why I specified "in a sense".

                There doesn't seem to be any faith issue involved with your opinion on Covid.
                Actually, there is, if you think about it. There are those who believe "God will protect me", "It's appointed unto man once to die, so if this is my time....", and there are those who succumb to "a spirit of fear" (which God's Word says is not of God), and allow this to control their whole lives for this season.

                This seems to be more a Christians with a different opinion on the very non-essentials of the faith so the question is how do we lovingly deal with each other.
                I think we're handling that quite well at our Church - we're allowing those who are against vaccination to hold that opinion, and those who are insistent on everybody being vaxxed to have their opinions, and we have plenty of room for those who wish to worship "in house" to do so, whether huddled together or spread apart, and for those who want to watch "from home" to do that, as well.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  That's why I specified "in a sense".

                  Actually, there is, if you think about it. There are those who believe "God will protect me", "It's appointed unto man once to die, so if this is my time....", and there are those who succumb to "a spirit of fear" (which God's Word says is not of God), and allow this to control their whole lives for this season.

                  I think we're handling that quite well at our Church - we're allowing those who are against vaccination to hold that opinion, and those who are insistent on everybody being vaxxed to have their opinions, and we have plenty of room for those who wish to worship "in house" to do so, whether huddled together or spread apart, and for those who want to watch "from home" to do that, as well.
                  Sorry, my eyes skimmed over "in a sense." Your church seems to be handling the situation just fine so what I said wasn't meant as a criticism of your specific situation. Even though it probably is, I'm just reluctant at this point in time to impose a faith test on people.
                  "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                  "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                    Sorry, my eyes skimmed over "in a sense." Your church seems to be handling the situation just fine so what I said wasn't meant as a criticism of your specific situation. Even though it probably is, I'm just reluctant at this point in time to impose a faith test on people.
                    Yeah, I really don't see it as a "faith test".

                    But it's true that some people are having a crisis of faith in this pandemic. They need prayed for, ministered to, and encouraged.
                    I have always like the principle that we pray like it all depends on God, but work like it all depends on us.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                      I'm not comfortable calling this a stronger-weaker brother issue. There doesn't seem to be any faith issue involved with your opinion on Covid. This seems to be more a Christians with a different opinion on the very non-essentials of the faith so the question is how do we lovingly deal with each other.
                      This is where it gets a bit gray for me. I hesitate to tell someone, especially those who are at-risk, that they lack faith. However, if you're neglecting the sacraments as a result there's something to be addressed there. I don't think we can casually forego communion or baptism because of prolonged fears over COVID. We have underground churches risking violent deaths in order to partake the body and blood of the Lord and undergo and witness baptism. Not to mention other "lesser" commands, such as laying on of hands, etc.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by nico View Post
                        This is where it gets a bit gray for me. I hesitate to tell someone, especially those who are at-risk, that they lack faith.
                        Good point. And it's not necessary to tell them. Just like you wouldn't say, "Ah, I see you are in a bed suffering from cancer".
                        It's one of those things we either observe or spiritually discern so that we can minister, but it's not necessary to publish our thoughts or findings.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by nico View Post

                          This is where it gets a bit gray for me. I hesitate to tell someone, especially those who are at-risk, that they lack faith. However, if you're neglecting the sacraments as a result there's something to be addressed there. I don't think we can casually forego communion or baptism because of prolonged fears over COVID. We have underground churches risking violent deaths in order to partake the body and blood of the Lord and undergo and witness baptism. Not to mention other "lesser" commands, such as laying on of hands, etc.
                          At this point, nearly two years in to the pandemic, with vaccination available, I would find it a hard sell, unless it's a weird situation like the "bubble boy".
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment

                          Related Threads

                          Collapse

                          Topics Statistics Last Post
                          Started by Thoughtful Monk, 10-16-2021, 04:01 PM
                          21 responses
                          129 views
                          2 likes
                          Last Post Sparko
                          by Sparko
                           
                          Started by nico, 10-08-2021, 11:16 AM
                          26 responses
                          159 views
                          0 likes
                          Last Post KingsGambit  
                          Started by Bill the Cat, 09-29-2021, 08:31 AM
                          76 responses
                          511 views
                          0 likes
                          Last Post NorrinRadd  
                          Started by Thoughtful Monk, 09-20-2021, 08:19 AM
                          28 responses
                          138 views
                          0 likes
                          Last Post Cow Poke  
                          Started by NorrinRadd, 09-07-2021, 04:03 AM
                          33 responses
                          195 views
                          0 likes
                          Last Post nico
                          by nico
                           
                          Working...
                          X