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Protestant Intellectual Development

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

    Commentaries is wide area with the good, the bad, and the ugly. Which ones would you recommend?
    I would recommend:

    Keil & Delitzsch for the Old Testament: good on the original languages.
    Lange: I've only had a few of the OT, but they were thorough.
    Alford's Commentary: Tremendous on the New Testament Greek.
    Wycliffe Bible Commentary.
    Barnes' Notes
    The New International Biblical Commentary by David J. Williams.
    International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.

    Not so much for Bible Study:

    Matthew Henry: more devotional and boring if you're looking for exposition.

    Debatable:

    William Barclay's Daily Study Bible: Only the New Testament. In some places excellent with illustrations and Bible exposition. But poor as far as Divine Inspiration and Infallibility of Scripture. The publishers of Daily Study Bible Series put out commentaries on the Old Testament by other authors. Out of curiosity I checked out their Book of Daniel at the bookstore, to see how it stood on authorship. It stated that the Book of Daniel was written around 170 BC, and was not a prophetic book written at the time it claimed to be written. So I never bought any of them.
    When I Survey....

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Faber View Post

      I would recommend:

      Keil & Delitzsch for the Old Testament: good on the original languages.
      Lange: I've only had a few of the OT, but they were thorough.
      Alford's Commentary: Tremendous on the New Testament Greek.
      Wycliffe Bible Commentary.
      Barnes' Notes
      The New International Biblical Commentary by David J. Williams.
      International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.
      I like the Expositor's Bible Commentary and the Tyndale commentaries.

      Blessings,
      Lee
      "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post

        Every church has its own "traditions."
        Yes. I call those "non-traditional traditions." Pretty much any Evangelical church with a "contemporary" worship style will follow a predictable "order" in a service. But they'd be loath to admit that's a "tradition."
        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

        Beige Nationalist.

        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

          Commentaries is wide area with the good, the bad, and the ugly. Which ones would you recommend?
          The guidance of the Gordon Fee "How to..." series is helpful on this matter and many others (though admittedly I often do not heed it). In this case, the appendix to first book in the series, How to Read the Bible for all its Worth, is most pertinent. One problem they explicitly note is that good new commentaries are being produced at a rapid pace, and so their specific recommendations become outdated quickly; they do provide general guidance in choosing for oneself.

          When I can afford it, I like to compare and contrast the opinions of scholars of generally similar views, mainly Witherington, Keener, and Fee.


          A few of the resources Faber mentioned -- particularly older ones -- can be had for free via various electronic Bible study programs.
          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

          Beige Nationalist.

          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

          Comment


          • #20
            As I was posting what I did in Post 19, I got to cogitating and became curious and did some investigating. I have the latest (4th) edition of How to Read the Bible for all its Worth. It was published in 2014. AFAICT by a couple of skims of the relevant sections, it only recommends one commentary each by Witherington and Keener. As of that date, Witherington had in print commentaries on at least a dozen NT books (some of those commentaries covering multiple books), and Keener had in print complete commentaries on seven NT books and a partial commentary on another.

            That "How to..." book also recommends a few other resources for general background and such. Neither volume of the IVP Bible Background Commentary is among them. (Keener was responsible for the NT volume.)

            So... um...
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Nationalist.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
              As I was posting what I did in Post 19, I got to cogitating and became curious and did some investigating. I have the latest (4th) edition of How to Read the Bible for all its Worth. It was published in 2014. AFAICT by a couple of skims of the relevant sections, it only recommends one commentary each by Witherington and Keener. As of that date, Witherington had in print commentaries on at least a dozen NT books (some of those commentaries covering multiple books), and Keener had in print complete commentaries on seven NT books and a partial commentary on another.

              That "How to..." book also recommends a few other resources for general background and such. Neither volume of the IVP Bible Background Commentary is among them. (Keener was responsible for the NT volume.)

              So... um...
              So far, Keener's work on G- John looks promising - certainly well beyond ordinary.
              sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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              • #22
                I think the most important part of Scripture study is life application. Obviously there is intrinsic value in knowing what the text actually says and what it would have made to the original audience, which isn't always obvious. But I don't think that arcane research that is interesting but ultimately meaningless to the life of the believer needs to be a high priority. To be clear, there's nothing wrong with studying this stuff, just like there's nothing wrong with being interested in other general topics.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                  One of my newsletters was talking about a man who convert to Catholicism. Apparently he was influenced by a more robust intellectual environment. The newsletter then had this quote.

                  More intellectually oriented Protestants are often drawn to Catholicism precisely because it seems to have the robust intellectual development they crave. That is a legitimate challenge that we as Protestants need to step up to. We need to present our own substantial intellectual heritage in a way that people can access and engage with.


                  I can relate to this as generally speaking I find Catholic (and Orthodox) thought goes to a deeper level than Protestantism. I've also been in enough churches that discourage using the mind as part of your faith.

                  What do you think? Does Protestantism need to step up?
                  Pre-Reformation thought belongs equally to all the Christianities that followed that time. And even after the splits occurred, theologians borrowed from one another across the different confessions. Since none of them has a monopoly of the divine wisdom, surely that is as it should be. Such borrowing can also act as a means of Christian uniity in practice, despite the various kinds of disunity.

                  If Protestants desire to read the Fathers of the Church, or the scholastic theologians, or Saint Thomas Aquinas in particular, or the post-Reformation Catholic divines, there is nothing to prevent their doing so as Protestants. Just as, if Catholics want to read the commentaries, letters, polemics or Institutes of Calvin, they don't have to become Calvinists in order to do so. If a particular form of Christianity seems to have good qualities that one's own form of Christianity lacks or seems to lack, one can import those good qualities into one's own form of Christianity by practicing them within one's own form of Christianity.

                  FWIW, I don't think that the discontents and faults and sins and deficiencies of one kind of Christianity are significantly different from that of any other kind. IMO, they should help one another, rather than squabbling as to which one of them is the greatest. The grass is not greener on the other side.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
                    If a particular form of Christianity seems to have good qualities that one's own form of Christianity lacks or seems to lack, one can import those good qualities into one's own form of Christianity by practicing them within one's own form of Christianity.
                    Not really. If one is a Baptist, for example, one is going to have a tough time importing any sort of liturgical practice into one's Christianity. Christianity is not an individual, but a group effort.
                    FWIW, I don't think that the discontents and faults and sins and deficiencies of one kind of Christianity are significantly different from that of any other kind. IMO, they should help one another, rather than squabbling as to which one of them is the greatest. The grass is not greener on the other side.
                    While working together is laudable, all kinds of Christianity are NOT equal. The "grass is greener" analogy doesn't work too well here; for the vast majority of Christians, one's own grass is assumed to be greener, and all other grasses aren't looked at very closely. It is only when one becomes dissatisfied with one's own grass that one tends to look elsewhere (I'm an exception - I was happy with my Baptist grass when I started looking around out of curiosity).
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Not really. If one is a Baptist, for example, one is going to have a tough time importing any sort of liturgical practice into one's Christianity. Christianity is not an individual, but a group effort.
                      I think that depends on leadership. Baptists do not typically observe Advent, or recite a benediction in unison, or have elders instead of (or in addition to) deacons. We have managed to integrate all three without any problems at all.

                      While working together is laudable, all kinds of Christianity are NOT equal. The "grass is greener" analogy doesn't work too well here; for the vast majority of Christians, one's own grass is assumed to be greener, and all other grasses aren't looked at very closely. It is only when one becomes dissatisfied with one's own grass that one tends to look elsewhere (I'm an exception - I was happy with my Baptist grass when I started looking around out of curiosity).
                      Our Church has, at various times, hosted or sponsored both African-American and Hispanic congregations. We all got along great, and loved fellowship with one another, but worship styles are obviously not compatible, so we did a quarterly "all together" worship service, but each their own otherwise.

                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        I think that depends on leadership. Baptists do not typically observe Advent, or recite a benediction in unison, or have elders instead of (or in addition to) deacons. We have managed to integrate all three without any problems at all.
                        Respectfully, those are rather limited in scope. And "deacon" and "elder" ("presbyter") mean VERY different things in liturgical traditions.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          Respectfully, those are rather limited in scope. And "deacon" and "elder" ("presbyter") mean VERY different things in liturgical traditions.
                          Yes, sir. Understood.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment

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