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‘Theology Matters’—Why One Worship Leader Can No Longer Support Hillsong...

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Part of the concern, however, is that some churches, in an apparent attempt to be relevant, start focusing on appealing to the masses rather than focus on "It's all about Jesus".

    I have seen numerous cases where churches change their format or platform or building or style - in hopes of gaining more people - and all they do is push away the faithful attenders who simply want Jesus preached.
    No argument from me. Just because you can make an error going one direction doesn't mean you can make an error going a different direction. Out of context (a little anyways) this maybe why Jesus referred to the way as being narrow.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

      I have seen numerous cases where churches change their format or platform or building or style - in hopes of gaining more people - and all they do is push away the faithful attenders who simply want Jesus preached.
      People don't join football clubs to play baseball. Why would we expect people to join the church to play badminton?
      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.

      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by tabibito View Post
        People don't join football clubs to play baseball. Why would we expect people to join the church to play badminton?
        A lot of folks join for the socializing and look for a church with plenty of lunches and various activities to mingle at. What they're really looking for is some sort of social club.

        Others join to mingle but not for social reasons. They're there to make connections. Mostly business, but for a few going to "the right church" is a political move as well.

        Some go because they feel a duty to take their children/grandchildren.

        And there are even some who go because they want to hear the Gospel.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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        • #49
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          A lot of folks join for the socializing and look for a church with plenty of lunches and various activities to mingle at. And there are even some who go because they want to hear the Gospel.
          Perfectly valid reasons for going to church, beyond doubt. Fellowship is, after all, an important factor of Christian life. AHHHHHHHHHH - Fellowship with "like-minded" people who want to be disciples is an important factor, anyway.

          Twice a week, one of the local Baptist Churches provides beneficial activities, in the form of language teaching, for all comers.

          Other language classes and activities centre on Christian matters, particularly on Sundays. It is no accident that the church concerned has one of the most mixed and strongest congregations in the city.
          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
          .
          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
          Scripture before Tradition:
          but that won't prevent others from
          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
          of the right to call yourself Christian.

          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

            Perfectly valid reasons for going to church, beyond doubt. Fellowship is, after all, an important factor of Christian life. AHHHHHHHHHH - Fellowship with "like-minded" people who want to be disciples is an important factor, anyway.

            Twice a week, one of the local Baptist Churches provides beneficial activities, in the form of language teaching, for all comers.

            Other language classes and activities centre on Christian matters, particularly on Sundays. It is no accident that the church concerned has one of the most mixed and strongest congregations in the city.
            Totally agree. The idea that the whole, or even main, reason for assembling is to "hear the Word" can't be supported by Scripture. ISTM it's a modern and western idea that we should "go to church" to sing a few songs, hear a bit of teaching, then, having done our Christian duty / good works, dash out to get on with real life.
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Federalist.

            Nationalist Christian.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Proud member of the this space left blank community.

            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

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            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

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            • #51
              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

              My preference is for Psa. 149-150 style praise and worship -- even though I have been rather accurately labeled as "phlegmatic" and "taciturn" as far as my IRL interactions are concerned.
              This was as loud as it got at the time, so I don't get the "sure, all genres are okay, except rock/heavy metal" line of argumentation. If the rationale is that it is too "entertaining", then I should abstain from churches that play organ music, because I find that far more entertaining than praise/worship music.

              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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              • #52
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                This was as loud as it got at the time, so I don't get the "sure, all genres are okay, except rock/heavy metal" line of argumentation. If the rationale is that it is too "entertaining", then I should abstain from churches that play organ music, because I find that far more entertaining than praise/worship music.
                Loud, emotive, wide variety of instruments, physically demonstrative.

                It is basically the only example we have of "Biblical" worship style. While I would never denigrate those who simply *prefer* the more staid, traditional, "churchy" styles as a matter of personal taste, when they go so far as to claim those styles are more Scripturally sound, I immediately recognize them as ignoramuses.
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Federalist.

                Nationalist Christian.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Going to sound a contrary note here.

                  I think Hillsong lyrics, though not perfect, are generally sound. Searching for heretical Hillsong lyrics, I found this:

                  Source: Reddit

                  “You didn’t want heaven without us, so Jesus you brought heaven down”

                  • Hillsong, What a Beautiful Name
                  Source

                  © Copyright Original Source


                  Not what I would call heretical, or even questionable (cf. Luke 22:15). Most of their lyrics emphasize devotion to Jesus, which I find very Biblical (1 Cor. 7:35, 2 Cor. 11:3), and challenging.

                  "The most of our spiritual decays and barrenness arise from an inordinate admission of other things into our minds; for these are they that weaken grace in all its operations. But when the mind is filled with thoughts of Christ and his glory, when the soul thereon cleaves unto him with intense affections, they will cast out, or not give admittance unto, those causes of spiritual weakness and indisposition." (John Owen)

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                    Source: Reddit

                    “You didn’t want heaven without us, so Jesus you brought heaven down”

                    • Hillsong, What a Beautiful Name
                    Source

                    © Copyright Original Source

                    That's good theology?

                    A) Supposing to know the thoughts of Christ based on assumptions.
                    2) Where is the biblical support for heaven being brought down to earth?
                    C) That seems to cheapen how incredibly beautiful and special heaven is.



                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      2) Where is the biblical support for heaven being brought down to earth?
                      Well, Psalm 18:9 "He bowed down the heavens and came down...". It's been linked to the Incarnation for quite some time.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Well, Psalm 18:9 "He bowed down the heavens and came down...". It's been linked to the Incarnation for quite some time.
                        Meh... I don't really see that in "You didn’t want heaven without us, so Jesus you brought heaven down” - it's not just the statement, but the rationale.

                        Besides, other translations say "He parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under his feet", "He opened the heavens and came down; dark storm clouds were beneath his feet.", "He also bowed the heavens down low, and came down With thick darkness under His feet.", "He bent the heavens and came down, total darkness beneath his feet.", etc.

                        But, at least I see from whence that apparently came.

                        Thanks OBP.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Where is the biblical support for heaven being brought down to earth?
                          I think they might be referring to Jesus' announcement that "The kingdom of heaven is at hand!" (Mt. 4:17)

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                            I think they might be referring to Jesus' announcement that "The kingdom of heaven is at hand!" (Mt. 4:17)

                            Blessings,
                            Lee
                            No.

                            I love, brother, but no.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              What about the new creation?
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                                What about the new creation?
                                Some day! I'm ready.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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