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‘Theology Matters’—Why One Worship Leader Can No Longer Support Hillsong...

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  • ‘Theology Matters’—Why One Worship Leader Can No Longer Support Hillsong...

    ‘Theology Matters’—Why One Worship Leader Can No Longer Support Hillsong, Elevation, Bethel

    I'm still reading up on this, but wondered if anybody else had seen others mention Hillsong and Elevation in this way.

    A July 12 Facebook post about “false teachings” in some popular Christian music is striking a chord. The statement by Tennessee recording artist and worship leader Mackenzie Morgan, who says she can no longer “stay silent” about heretical lyrics, already has more than 7,000 likes.

    After lots of studying, Morgan writes, she “was met with a terrible feeling of grief and sadness for what I was supporting”—specifically naming Hillsong, Elevation and Bethel Music. “Maybe it’s time we start looking at the Scriptures to see what God truly calls for in worship and get over what we want,” she adds.

    Mackenzie Morgan: Why Pay for Falsehoods?

    Although Morgan says the problems with some modern worship music are “too numerous” for her post, she elaborates on “churches such as Elevation and the teachings of Steve Furtick,” pointing to “his belief in modalism, which is…heresy.” She adds, “As for Bethel, that one should be pretty obvious.”

    Elevation, a North Carolina megachurch, is organized around a vision that founder Furtick says he received from God. California-based Bethel Church has been controversial partly because of its focus on supernatural ministry. Hillsong, a global megachurch based out of Australia has faced controversy in recent months most famously for Hillsong East Coast’s pastor Carl Lentz‘s firing due to infidelity, but also for alleged spiritual abuse and for promoting a celebrity culture. Former Hillsong Dallas pastors Jess and Reed Bogard have been accused of mishandling church funds, and Hillsong has launched an investigation into allegations of financial abuse that have been levied at the church as a whole.

    “Theology matters,” Morgan writes. “I can’t even stress that enough. It matters if a song is weak in theology and is not accurately displaying the Holiness of our God. It matters if churches are spreading a prosperity Gospel that is different from the Gospel found in Scripture. It MATTERS that each Sunday churches pay royalties to these churches in order to be able to sing their music, furthering [their] outreach and their false gospel message.”


    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  • #2
    [“Theology matters,” Morgan writes. “I can’t even stress that enough. It matters if a song is weak in theology and is not accurately displaying the Holiness of our God. It matters if churches are spreading a prosperity Gospel that is different from the Gospel found in Scripture. It MATTERS that each Sunday churches pay royalties to these churches in order to be able to sing their music, furthering [their] outreach and their false gospel message.”
    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

    Comment


    • #3
      We call it Hellsong. And Beth-hell.

      When there is a dearth of sound teaching about the character of God, the music reflects it. People who have no grounding can't handle depth of theology in songs.

      Stephen Furtick has claimed to be God Almighty in one of his recent "sermons".

      And for fear of causing trouble, Justin Peters, Costi Hinn, Chris Rosebrough (Pirate Christian Radio), The Freakishly Tall Todd Friel (Wretched Radio), and, how horrible, John MacArthur, have been very outspoken about this kind of music, not to mention the false teaching.


      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have lheard ess than wonderful things about Hillsong and Elevation for probably a year if not longer. For some reason, critiques have been showing up on my YouTube feed. The critiques generally agree with what Mossy posted.
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
          I have lheard ess than wonderful things about Hillsong and Elevation for probably a year if not longer. For some reason, critiques have been showing up on my YouTube feed. The critiques generally agree with what Mossy posted.
          The surprise for me is that some churches exist where it might be safe to mention the problem.
          sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
            I have lheard ess than wonderful things about Hillsong and Elevation for probably a year if not longer. For some reason, critiques have been showing up on my YouTube feed. The critiques generally agree with what Mossy posted.
            Yeah, it seemed to be bubbling up as a thing before Covid, so maybe that's why I'm noticing it -- more churches are getting back into regular meeting, and it's becoming an issue again.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #7
              Hopefully people are waking up to the bad theology behind the music and wanting something more in keeping with true worship. But I know there will be myriads who are led astray and will never be discerning enough to figure out the issues with it.


              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                Hopefully people are waking up to the bad theology behind the music and wanting something more in keeping with true worship. But I know there will be myriads who are led astray and will never be discerning enough to figure out the issues with it.
                We have had 6 young families join our church in the last couple months -- they ALL make a point of the fact that they love that we do the old hymns, along with some of the stuff from the Modern Hymn Movement. (Another such young family will join this Sunday - music being an important factor)
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  We have had 6 young families join our church in the last couple months -- they ALL make a point of the fact that they love that we do the old hymns, along with some of the stuff from the Modern Hymn Movement. (Another such young family will join this Sunday - music being an important factor)
                  I think that the covid lock downs were good for a few reasons, one of those being that the truly godly churches (like yours, and others I could name, even in my own province) have garnered people who have seen live streaming and recognized what may be lacking in the churches they were attending before.


                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                    I think that the covid lock downs were good for a few reasons, one of those being that the truly godly churches (like yours, and others I could name, even in my own province) have garnered people who have seen live streaming and recognized what may be lacking in the churches they were attending before.
                    The family that is joining this Sunday started coming to our Church because their own church went into lockdown. They had told me that, when their church reopens, they'll go back.

                    But when their church reopened - they were making everybody sign up ahead of time for one of 3 services, then you had to come into the foyer and wash your hands in front of somebody - and put on a new mask they provided, and sit 6 feet apart from anybody....

                    They said it was downright ridiculous, but when they talked to their pastor, he seemed to think they were handling things "just right".

                    We were also taking precautions, but we were never closed.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Because someone above mentioned the entire "style" of music as suspect, I want to clear one thing up: I dislike the music style of modern worship music. It attempts to mimic the style of what was popular in the 1970s... and from a pure musical perspective, does so very poorly. If you substituted the lyrics of modern worship songs for generic pop song lyrics, there would be no audience there, and the radio wouldn't play it. They're just not good.

                      I'm not the kind of person who thinks that it's inherently wrong to use any particular style of music, and I'm reluctant to criticize based on what is honestly just my subjective music preferences; it feels snobbish, and to import personal preferences over how other worship seems wrong. But I can't stand it myself.

                      So I stick to theology and there's generally quite a bit to criticize there.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        The family that is joining this Sunday started coming to our Church because their own church went into lockdown. They had told me that, when their church reopens, they'll go back.

                        But when their church reopened - they were making everybody sign up ahead of time for one of 3 services, then you had to come into the foyer and wash your hands in front of somebody - and put on a new mask they provided, and sit 6 feet apart from anybody....

                        They said it was downright ridiculous, but when they talked to their pastor, he seemed to think they were handling things "just right".

                        We were also taking precautions, but we were never closed.
                        I commend you for not closing. And so thankful that you weren't arrested, as were some here. Whose congregations increased by large numbers while the pastors were in jail.

                        I remember a story that told of an occupying army somewhere entering a church and telling the people there that they were going to kill all the Christians, but anybody who wanted to leave could.

                        A lot of people left, and the soldiers locked the doors from the inside. Then they put down their weapons and said that they were also Christians and wanted to send the CINO's away so they wouldn't be betrayed to their leaders. I can't remember where this supposedly took place.

                        Persecution purifies the church.


                        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          Because someone above mentioned the entire "style" of music as suspect, I want to clear one thing up: I dislike the music style of modern worship music. It attempts to mimic the style of what was popular in the 1970s... and from a pure musical perspective, does so very poorly. If you substituted the lyrics of modern worship songs for generic pop song lyrics, there would be no audience there, and the radio wouldn't play it. They're just not good.

                          I'm not the kind of person who thinks that it's inherently wrong to use any particular style of music, and I'm reluctant to criticize based on what is honestly just my subjective music preferences; it feels snobbish, and to import personal preferences over how other worship seems wrong. But I can't stand it myself.

                          So I stick to theology and there's generally quite a bit to criticize there.
                          I agree with you that the style of music doesn't really matter. It is the content of the lyrics that truly matters, and, in some respects, the way it is presented. I have nothing against a band or orchestra or an ensemble, but the raucous and, forgive me if this offends, the rock-style manner becomes more of a worldly entertainment that an opportunity to worship the character of God.

                          And, the emotional responses that are sought so hard are just wrong. When the words of a song speak more of how I feel about God instead of about who He is, there are massive issues.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            ‘Theology Matters’—Why One Worship Leader Can No Longer Support Hillsong, Elevation, Bethel

                            I'm still reading up on this, but wondered if anybody else had seen others mention Hillsong and Elevation in this way.

                            A July 12 Facebook post about “false teachings” in some popular Christian music is striking a chord. The statement by Tennessee recording artist and worship leader Mackenzie Morgan, who says she can no longer “stay silent” about heretical lyrics, already has more than 7,000 likes.

                            After lots of studying, Morgan writes, she “was met with a terrible feeling of grief and sadness for what I was supporting”—specifically naming Hillsong, Elevation and Bethel Music. “Maybe it’s time we start looking at the Scriptures to see what God truly calls for in worship and get over what we want,” she adds.

                            Mackenzie Morgan: Why Pay for Falsehoods?

                            Although Morgan says the problems with some modern worship music are “too numerous” for her post, she elaborates on “churches such as Elevation and the teachings of Steve Furtick,” pointing to “his belief in modalism, which is…heresy.” She adds, “As for Bethel, that one should be pretty obvious.”

                            Elevation, a North Carolina megachurch, is organized around a vision that founder Furtick says he received from God. California-based Bethel Church has been controversial partly because of its focus on supernatural ministry. Hillsong, a global megachurch based out of Australia has faced controversy in recent months most famously for Hillsong East Coast’s pastor Carl Lentz‘s firing due to infidelity, but also for alleged spiritual abuse and for promoting a celebrity culture. Former Hillsong Dallas pastors Jess and Reed Bogard have been accused of mishandling church funds, and Hillsong has launched an investigation into allegations of financial abuse that have been levied at the church as a whole.

                            “Theology matters,” Morgan writes. “I can’t even stress that enough. It matters if a song is weak in theology and is not accurately displaying the Holiness of our God. It matters if churches are spreading a prosperity Gospel that is different from the Gospel found in Scripture. It MATTERS that each Sunday churches pay royalties to these churches in order to be able to sing their music, furthering [their] outreach and their false gospel message.”

                            It's a shame that article didn't give -- or, AFAICT, even link to -- any specific examples of problematic lyrics.

                            Also, if you follow the "supernatural ministry" link, it's clear that this statement -- "California-based Bethel Church has been controversial partly because of its focus on supernatural ministry" -- is so misleading as to at least border on dishonesty.
                            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                            Beige Nationalist.

                            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              Because someone above mentioned the entire "style" of music as suspect, I want to clear one thing up: I dislike the music style of modern worship music. It attempts to mimic the style of what was popular in the 1970s... and from a pure musical perspective, does so very poorly. If you substituted the lyrics of modern worship songs for generic pop song lyrics, there would be no audience there, and the radio wouldn't play it. They're just not good.

                              I'm not the kind of person who thinks that it's inherently wrong to use any particular style of music, and I'm reluctant to criticize based on what is honestly just my subjective music preferences; it feels snobbish, and to import personal preferences over how other worship seems wrong. But I can't stand it myself.

                              So I stick to theology and there's generally quite a bit to criticize there.
                              My preference is for Psa. 149-150 style praise and worship -- even though I have been rather accurately labeled as "phlegmatic" and "taciturn" as far as my IRL interactions are concerned.
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                              Beige Nationalist.

                              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                              Comment

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