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SBC article at Daily Wire.

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  • SBC article at Daily Wire.

    Big Media Aligns To Bend Largest Protestant Denomination To Its Woke Will.

    I'm generally sympathetic to the SBC here, but the author makes it difficult. She places equality of the sexes in the same class with LGBT, CRT, Intersectionality, and SJ issues. She approvingly cites an Arkansas pastor who claims that advocacy of "women preaching to men" is incompatible with theological conservatism. (By implication, he is therefore linking it to theological liberalism. This is not necessarily true; see the definition of "feminism" linked in that same article.)

    Most infuriatingly, the author and some of the sources she cites make the common claim that promotion of egalitarianism comes from a carnal desire to be more like "the world," and thus disrespects Scripture in various ways; the "complementarian" view (I don't think the article explicitly uses the term) is "the" Scriptural view.

    This view is not only incorrect, it is

    -- arrogant

    -- ignorant

    -- narrow-minded

    -- dumb as a bag of rocks.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

  • #2
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    Big Media Aligns To Bend Largest Protestant Denomination To Its Woke Will.

    I'm generally sympathetic to the SBC here, but the author makes it difficult. She places equality of the sexes in the same class with LGBT, CRT, Intersectionality, and SJ issues. She approvingly cites an Arkansas pastor who claims that advocacy of "women preaching to men" is incompatible with theological conservatism. (By implication, he is therefore linking it to theological liberalism. This is not necessarily true; see the definition of "feminism" linked in that same article.)

    Most infuriatingly, the author and some of the sources she cites make the common claim that promotion of egalitarianism comes from a carnal desire to be more like "the world," and thus disrespects Scripture in various ways; the "complementarian" view (I don't think the article explicitly uses the term) is "the" Scriptural view.

    This view is not only incorrect, it is

    -- arrogant

    -- ignorant

    -- narrow-minded

    -- dumb as a bag of rocks.
    Women in roles of authority does contravene Theological conservatism, true enough. However, Theological conservatism is well and truly in contradiction of scripture on this issue - which makes Theological conservatism irrelevant to Church practice (on this issue).
    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

      Women in roles of authority does contravene Theological conservatism, true enough. However, Theological conservatism is well and truly in contradiction of scripture on this issue - which makes Theological conservatism irrelevant to Church practice (on this issue).
      It depends on how one defines terms, and I have not been able to find a specific definition for "theological conservatism" online. It is mostly defined as I defined it, viz. as a contrast to theological liberalism. And I was surprised to find that that term also is rather vague. I had always thought theological liberalism consisted mainly of a "low" view of Scripture, and a loose regard for miracle accounts, the deity of Christ, the physical resurrection, the exclusivity of salvation by faith in Christ, etc. Accordingly, I'd been of the understanding that deriving egalitarianism by exegesis of Scripture was using a (theologically) "conservative" hermeneutical approach, even if it results in a (socially) liberal or progressive outcome.
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

      Beige Nationalist.

      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

      Comment


      • #4
        My father is a pastor of a member church in the SBC. He's about as theologically conservative as one can get, short of the KJV-only crowd. And even he has no theological problem with women in leadership roles, and acknowledges that the stance against women as preachers is more likely a cultural issue than a theological issue. Granted, he's been a pastor for decades and has a doctorate in theology, so he's studied such things a bit more than your average church goer. He's also been a board member of the state's Southern Baptist association, which I mention by way of saying that he's somewhat of an insider in those circles, and not some fringe backwater pastor.

        Because I've never attended a church in which there was a female pastor, the concept makes me slightly uncomfortable (simply because it's not what I'm used to). However, I have no theological objections to female pastors and would not stand against a congregation calling one to ministry.
        "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

        Comment


        • #5
          Let me just observe that, having attended the Annual Meeting in Nashville last week, it's like seeing a fender bender in a parking lot, and then seeing it reported on TV as a 40 car pile-up.
          It was incredibly peaceful and unified, with a few respectful disagreements.

          I think the main issue for most of us SBC Conservatives is that women cannot be lead pastors, but there are plenty of other places in ministry for them to serve. And I think that's biblical.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            For me, the article is just another example of how denominations are splitting up between liberal and conservative. It looks like SBC is just late to the party.
            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by myth View Post
              ...and not some fringe backwater pastor....
              This is about me, isn't it?

              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Let me just observe that, having attended the Annual Meeting in Nashville last week, it's like seeing a fender bender in a parking lot, and then seeing it reported on TV as a 40 car pile-up.
                It was incredibly peaceful and unified, with a few respectful disagreements.

                I think the main issue for most of us SBC Conservatives is that women cannot be lead pastors, but there are plenty of other places in ministry for them to serve. And I think that's biblical.
                Well, it also sounds like the media is making the issue bigger than it has to be. Some of the articles I just read characterized anyone who believes women can be a lead pastor as progressive and anyone disagrees as ultra-conservative. To me, it's a continuum: one can be progressive on a single issue and conservative on all the other issues. There are some single issues that might well be considered defining (abortion, maybe), but I don't see female lead pastors as one of those defining issues. I wasn't very clear with my wording earlier, but I should clarify that I'm undecided on the female "lead pastor" issue but ok with women having the title of pastor (like associate pastor, etc.). I lean towards female lead pastors being Scripturally permissible, but I also recognize that there are strong biblical arguments on the other side of that issue.

                Part of this is why I attend a nondenomenational church now. Perhaps it's just the SBC churches I've attended most of my life before, but many members tether themselves to all the traditional planks and seem to view anyone who disagrees as....less worthy of the Christian name. To be clear, my dad's not like that. But so many people are. For clarity's sake, all my church's pastors, deacons, and main leadership team are male....with women employees and volunteers leading various ministries.

                For me, I embrace a lot of conservative SBC theologies....but I do diverge on some points, and might diverge on others later. I just want to worship in a group of people that's a little more open minded, though I do want agreement on all issues that are central to the Christian faith. As members of Christ's global church, Christians shouldn't be demonizing each other for different opinions on secondary and tertiary issues. We should instead focus on our points of agreement and work together to spread the Gospel and "do good to everyone, and especially those of the household of faith" (Gal. 6:10, NRSV).

                What was the outcome of the convention, anyways?


                "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  This is about me, isn't it?
                  Lol nah.I used to always attend these conventions when I was younger. Attended a lot of the larger events, and then mom and my sister and I would go do vacationy things while dad attended the 'business' sessions. Dad's been highly involved in the state association in the last decade or so, but hasn't gone to the national convention in a long while.

                  I rather think I'd find the conventions more interesting now as a 30-something graduate student in theology than as an 8 year old. :)
                  "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by myth View Post

                    Well, it also sounds like the media is making the issue bigger than it has to be. Some of the articles I just read characterized anyone who believes women can be a lead pastor as progressive and anyone disagrees as ultra-conservative. To me, it's a continuum: one can be progressive on a single issue and conservative on all the other issues. There are some single issues that might well be considered defining (abortion, maybe), but I don't see female lead pastors as one of those defining issues. I wasn't very clear with my wording earlier, but I should clarify that I'm undecided on the female "lead pastor" issue but ok with women having the title of pastor (like associate pastor, etc.). I lean towards female lead pastors being Scripturally permissible, but I also recognize that there are strong biblical arguments on the other side of that issue.

                    Part of this is why I attend a nondenomenational church now. Perhaps it's just the SBC churches I've attended most of my life before, but many members tether themselves to all the traditional planks and seem to view anyone who disagrees as....less worthy of the Christian name. To be clear, my dad's not like that. But so many people are. For clarity's sake, all my church's pastors, deacons, and main leadership team are male....with women employees and volunteers leading various ministries.

                    For me, I embrace a lot of conservative SBC theologies....but I do diverge on some points, and might diverge on others later. I just want to worship in a group of people that's a little more open minded, though I do want agreement on all issues that are central to the Christian faith. As members of Christ's global church, Christians shouldn't be demonizing each other for different opinions on secondary and tertiary issues. We should instead focus on our points of agreement and work together to spread the Gospel and "do good to everyone, and especially those of the household of faith" (Gal. 6:10, NRSV).

                    What was the outcome of the convention, anyways?

                    Technicality - "the Convention" refers to the body (The Southern Baptist Convention) - the "Annual Meeting" refers to the event.

                    I think the biggest takeaway is that there were FAR more "messengers" than anybody had anticipated - over 15,000, plus guests and exhibitors, for a total of over 21,000 people.
                    The message was loud and clear to the Executive Committee (the group that "runs things" between Annual Meetings)

                    (This was the highest attendance at any Annual Meeting in nearly 3 decades, and second ONLY to the 1995 Annual Meeting in Atlanta)

                    The President who was elected was not a radical anti-Critical Race Theory guy, which disappointed the extreme right. (There's definitely an anti-Critical Race Theory sentiment)
                    He was, however, a "racial reconciliation" buy, which was good for most of us, because that's been the direction of the SBC --- battling our "racist roots", having come out of the Civil War.

                    A lot of people don't realize you can be against Critical Race Theory AND be in favor of Racial Reconciliation.

                    The President of the SBC is actually a figurehead - no real power, so, to me, that was a yawner. Had the liberal been elected, it would have gotten wild.

                    But on ALL of the Resolutions passed, the theme was clear - we don't want to drift liberal, and want to support the Baptist Faith & Message 2000, which is a pretty conservative "pro family" platflorm.

                    There were no fireworks. When something comes up for a vote, we raise bright yellow ballots for a visual vote, and only when it is not clearly "yes" or "no" does it turn into an actual "fill out the ballot, pass them in, count them, and announce a decision".

                    Over and over there was a wildly "sea of yellow" for the 'affirmative', and maybe 200 or so raised for the "negative".

                    sea of yellow.jpg

                    (In this case, yellow did not make me sad )

                    Attached Files
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                      For me, the article is just another example of how denominations are splitting up between liberal and conservative. It looks like SBC is just late to the party.
                      Actually, we (SBC) had our "conservative resurgence" in the 70's, and have been maintaining a Conservative direction ever since.
                      Back then, the big group of liberals got mad and took their bat and ball and started their own "Cooperative Baptist Fellowship".

                      By the way, those knuckleheads have ordained a TRANS "pastor".

                      trans pastor.jpeg


                      Attached Files
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by myth View Post

                        Lol nah.I used to always attend these conventions when I was younger. Attended a lot of the larger events, and then mom and my sister and I would go do vacationy things while dad attended the 'business' sessions. Dad's been highly involved in the state association in the last decade or so, but hasn't gone to the national convention in a long while.

                        I rather think I'd find the conventions more interesting now as a 30-something graduate student in theology than as an 8 year old. :)
                        We always include at least 3-5 days of vacation following the 2-3 days of Annual Meeting.
                        Churches I serve seem totally fine paying round trip airfare for my wife and myself - they pay for the days we're "in meetings", and we pay for the hotels and meals and expense on "our own time".
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Let me just observe that, having attended the Annual Meeting in Nashville last week, it's like seeing a fender bender in a parking lot, and then seeing it reported on TV as a 40 car pile-up.
                          It was incredibly peaceful and unified, with a few respectful disagreements.

                          I think the main issue for most of us SBC Conservatives is that women cannot be lead pastors, but there are plenty of other places in ministry for them to serve. And I think that's biblical.
                          I would pedantically prefer the more precise, "that's a Biblically defensible position." In that case I could agree with you, even if I don't agree it is the *best* interpretation of Scripture. What I most object to, and continue to characterize with the adjectives I used in the OP, is the notion that that is the *only* Biblically defensible view.
                          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                          Beige Nationalist.

                          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                            I would pedantically prefer the more precise, "that's a Biblically defensible position." In that case I could agree with you, even if I don't agree it is the *best* interpretation of Scripture. What I most object to, and continue to characterize with the adjectives I used in the OP, is the notion that that is the *only* Biblically defensible view.
                            I actually started to type that - "Biblically defensible" - but changed my mind because of the pattern of God's creation - man being the head of the home, Christ being the head of the Church --- I've seen people 'defend' women deacons or preachers or even apostles, but I've never seen a "Biblical defense" of a woman as the lead pastor of a church that made sense.

                            Perhaps that would be a good 'new thread'.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              I've never seen a "Biblical defense" of a woman as the lead pastor of a church that made sense.

                              Perhaps that would be a good 'new thread'.
                              BEGUNNED

                              https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...le#post1277471
                              sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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