Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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What Did Jesus Know, and When Did He Know it?
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His fullness was shown during the transfiguration, was it not, when he showed his glory and spoke to Moses and Elijah? It's hard to determine where and how he balanced the God/Man nature.
I like the suggestion that he went off by himself because of his emotions. Didn't want anybody to see his reaction to his cousin finally be gone from the world.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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He knew who touched Him when the woman with the issue of blood touched His garment in a crowd where everybody was pressing against Him.
He knew what people were thinking. He knew what was going to happen before it happened. I believe He knew everything, and when He said that only God knows the time of His coming, well, He is God, and it was a way of saying that His disciples were not to be privy to that information.
I believe that when He went off by Himself to grieve, it was because He had to experience ALL that we do, and that includes that grieving. Sometimes humans know when a loved one is going to die, and we still grieve when it actually occurs.
I think we try to overthink some things.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by DesertBerean View PostHis fullness was shown during the transfiguration, was it not, when he showed his glory and spoke to Moses and Elijah? It's hard to determine where and how he balanced the God/Man nature.
I like the suggestion that he went off by himself because of his emotions. Didn't want anybody to see his reaction to his cousin finally be gone from the world.
When I was about 6 or 7, I went in the restroom at Church before the Church Service, and the PASTOR was in there standing at one of the urinals.
I was SHOCKED!!!!! Pastors PEE?!?!?!?! I'm serious -- He was THE PASTOR!!!!! It never occurred to me that he had BODILY FUNCTIONS!
Then I thought about Jesus - he wept, he got hungry, he got tired, he got angry... when he was a baby, somebody changed his diapers (such as they were).
He had to learn to talk, to walk, to do stuff on his own...
So, yeah, his humanity verses his DEITY... that's always been fascinating to me.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostHe knew who touched Him when the woman with the issue of blood touched His garment in a crowd where everybody was pressing against Him.
He knew what people were thinking. He knew what was going to happen before it happened. I believe He knew everything, and when He said that only God knows the time of His coming, well, He is God, and it was a way of saying that His disciples were not to be privy to that information.
I believe that when He went off by Himself to grieve, it was because He had to experience ALL that we do, and that includes that grieving. Sometimes humans know when a loved one is going to die, and we still grieve when it actually occurs.
I think we try to overthink some things.
Then somebody else brought up the "He laid aside his Deity" and we were off to the races --- in a very polite and civil discussion.
But I keep coming back to the notion that Jesus didn't need to go away on his own because of this "NEW" information, but because he, as a human, was reminded that the clock is ticking, and things were happening, and it wouldn't be long before it was HIM who would be dead.
Same thing when He called Lazarus from the tomb --- I can't help but think that Jesus thought - in no time at all, it will be ME in the tomb....The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostJesus may have already known about John but when news arrived about it this now meant everyone in his group also knew, and it might be he separated Himself from them because He didn't want to discuss it at the moment.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
OK, so in the OP -- I didn't want to give it away -- but when I said in that second paragraph that they weren't telling Jesus anything He didn't already know -- that was me.
Then somebody else brought up the "He laid aside his Deity" and we were off to the races --- in a very polite and civil discussion.
But I keep coming back to the notion that Jesus didn't need to go away on his own because of this "NEW" information, but because he, as a human, was reminded that the clock is ticking, and things were happening, and it wouldn't be long before it was HIM who would be dead.
Same thing when He called Lazarus from the tomb --- I can't help but think that Jesus thought - in no time at all, it will be ME in the tomb....
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostHe knew who touched Him when the woman with the issue of blood touched His garment in a crowd where everybody was pressing against Him.
He knew what people were thinking. He knew what was going to happen before it happened. I believe He knew everything, and when He said that only God knows the time of His coming, well, He is God, and it was a way of saying that His disciples were not to be privy to that information.
.
Matthew 24:36
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostMatthew 24:36
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOK, so Jesus was God, and He was also a man - the GodMan, Christ Jesus.
He "emptied himself" and became a man.....
So, somebody mentioned last night that when John's disciples came to Jesus, and told him John had been beheaded, that Jesus left to be by Himself (Matt 14)
They also made the comment that they weren't telling Jesus anything He didn't know, because He knows all.
Another person made a comment that, because Jesus "laid aside" His deity, He also laid aside his "knowing all".
He probably did NOT know that John had been beheaded.
(actually, the woman was very nice and was simply bringing up a point for discussion)
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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I generally tend to take the traditional Pentecostal view: In terms of "who He was," Jesus never ceased being "I AM." In terms of "what He did" (and was able to do), Jesus functioned as a prophet dependent on the Holy Spirit, albeit with "more" of the Spirit, or a closer relationship with the Father and Spirit, than any other prophet.
In the specific case of the OP, the context doesn't give us much to go on, and the parallel in Mark doesn't help. In light of Amos 3:7, even if He really did function as "just" a prophet, he probably knew John's murder *would* happen, even if He didn't know until the report in the OP that it *did* happen. Amos 3:7 is probably not *literally* true -- God probably does not tell His prophets every time He, e.g., intervenes to keep a puppy from being hit by a car -- but the murder of the Annunciator and Way-Preparer is a significant event.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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