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What Did Jesus Know, and When Did He Know it?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, the "emptied himself", to me, is complicated by the fact that He didn't lay aside his GODness, because He still had power over the elements, disease, and all kinds of supernatural powers.
    He pretty much turned those powers on and off too. Everything he touched didn't just come back to life. He had to access his Godness.

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    • #17
      His fullness was shown during the transfiguration, was it not, when he showed his glory and spoke to Moses and Elijah? It's hard to determine where and how he balanced the God/Man nature.

      I like the suggestion that he went off by himself because of his emotions. Didn't want anybody to see his reaction to his cousin finally be gone from the world.
      Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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      • #18
        He knew who touched Him when the woman with the issue of blood touched His garment in a crowd where everybody was pressing against Him.

        He knew what people were thinking. He knew what was going to happen before it happened. I believe He knew everything, and when He said that only God knows the time of His coming, well, He is God, and it was a way of saying that His disciples were not to be privy to that information.

        I believe that when He went off by Himself to grieve, it was because He had to experience ALL that we do, and that includes that grieving. Sometimes humans know when a loved one is going to die, and we still grieve when it actually occurs.

        I think we try to overthink some things.


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
          His fullness was shown during the transfiguration, was it not, when he showed his glory and spoke to Moses and Elijah? It's hard to determine where and how he balanced the God/Man nature.

          I like the suggestion that he went off by himself because of his emotions. Didn't want anybody to see his reaction to his cousin finally be gone from the world.
          Yeah, and he wept over Jerusalem, and drove the money changers out of the temple.... I have pointed out to people... ok, good story, first....

          When I was about 6 or 7, I went in the restroom at Church before the Church Service, and the PASTOR was in there standing at one of the urinals.
          I was SHOCKED!!!!! Pastors PEE?!?!?!?! I'm serious -- He was THE PASTOR!!!!! It never occurred to me that he had BODILY FUNCTIONS!

          Then I thought about Jesus - he wept, he got hungry, he got tired, he got angry... when he was a baby, somebody changed his diapers (such as they were).
          He had to learn to talk, to walk, to do stuff on his own...

          So, yeah, his humanity verses his DEITY... that's always been fascinating to me.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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          • #20
            Originally posted by mossrose View Post
            He knew who touched Him when the woman with the issue of blood touched His garment in a crowd where everybody was pressing against Him.

            He knew what people were thinking. He knew what was going to happen before it happened. I believe He knew everything, and when He said that only God knows the time of His coming, well, He is God, and it was a way of saying that His disciples were not to be privy to that information.

            I believe that when He went off by Himself to grieve, it was because He had to experience ALL that we do, and that includes that grieving. Sometimes humans know when a loved one is going to die, and we still grieve when it actually occurs.

            I think we try to overthink some things.
            OK, so in the OP -- I didn't want to give it away -- but when I said in that second paragraph that they weren't telling Jesus anything He didn't already know -- that was me.
            Then somebody else brought up the "He laid aside his Deity" and we were off to the races --- in a very polite and civil discussion.

            But I keep coming back to the notion that Jesus didn't need to go away on his own because of this "NEW" information, but because he, as a human, was reminded that the clock is ticking, and things were happening, and it wouldn't be long before it was HIM who would be dead.

            Same thing when He called Lazarus from the tomb --- I can't help but think that Jesus thought - in no time at all, it will be ME in the tomb....
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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            • #21
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Jesus may have already known about John but when news arrived about it this now meant everyone in his group also knew, and it might be he separated Himself from them because He didn't want to discuss it at the moment.
              And, this, too! He didn't want that to become the focus, because there was still ministry to do -- in no time, he'd be feeding and healing thousands of people.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                OK, so in the OP -- I didn't want to give it away -- but when I said in that second paragraph that they weren't telling Jesus anything He didn't already know -- that was me.
                Then somebody else brought up the "He laid aside his Deity" and we were off to the races --- in a very polite and civil discussion.

                But I keep coming back to the notion that Jesus didn't need to go away on his own because of this "NEW" information, but because he, as a human, was reminded that the clock is ticking, and things were happening, and it wouldn't be long before it was HIM who would be dead.

                Same thing when He called Lazarus from the tomb --- I can't help but think that Jesus thought - in no time at all, it will be ME in the tomb....
                I do believe that He was certainly never away from the shadow of the cross over His life. He knew the exact timing of all that would progress to that point.


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                  He knew who touched Him when the woman with the issue of blood touched His garment in a crowd where everybody was pressing against Him.

                  He knew what people were thinking. He knew what was going to happen before it happened. I believe He knew everything, and when He said that only God knows the time of His coming, well, He is God, and it was a way of saying that His disciples were not to be privy to that information.
                  .

                  Matthew 24:36
                  “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.



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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Matthew 24:36
                    “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
                    Yeah, that's one of the challenges of the Trinity - the "compartmentalization" of the Three -- but with the caveat that this was when Jesus was incarnate.

                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      OK, so Jesus was God, and He was also a man - the GodMan, Christ Jesus.
                      He "emptied himself" and became a man.....

                      So, somebody mentioned last night that when John's disciples came to Jesus, and told him John had been beheaded, that Jesus left to be by Himself (Matt 14)
                      They also made the comment that they weren't telling Jesus anything He didn't know, because He knows all.
                      So, yeah, to be clear, that "somebody" was me.

                      Another person made a comment that, because Jesus "laid aside" His deity, He also laid aside his "knowing all".
                      He probably did NOT know that John had been beheaded.
                      And that was some knowed-up busybody woman who should have been silent in the Church! She wasn't even wearing a bubushka thing!

                      (actually, the woman was very nice and was simply bringing up a point for discussion)

                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I generally tend to take the traditional Pentecostal view: In terms of "who He was," Jesus never ceased being "I AM." In terms of "what He did" (and was able to do), Jesus functioned as a prophet dependent on the Holy Spirit, albeit with "more" of the Spirit, or a closer relationship with the Father and Spirit, than any other prophet.

                        In the specific case of the OP, the context doesn't give us much to go on, and the parallel in Mark doesn't help. In light of Amos 3:7, even if He really did function as "just" a prophet, he probably knew John's murder *would* happen, even if He didn't know until the report in the OP that it *did* happen. Amos 3:7 is probably not *literally* true -- God probably does not tell His prophets every time He, e.g., intervenes to keep a puppy from being hit by a car -- but the murder of the Annunciator and Way-Preparer is a significant event.
                        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                        Beige Nationalist.

                        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

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                        • #27
                          He definitely got sterssed in the Garden of Gethsemane. What is up with that hymn that claims He sweat drops of blood for our grief and not His own? Seems a tad docetist.
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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