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What Did Jesus Know, and When Did He Know it?

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  • What Did Jesus Know, and When Did He Know it?

    OK, so Jesus was God, and He was also a man - the GodMan, Christ Jesus.
    He "emptied himself" and became a man.....

    So, somebody mentioned last night that when John's disciples came to Jesus, and told him John had been beheaded, that Jesus left to be by Himself (Matt 14)
    They also made the comment that they weren't telling Jesus anything He didn't know, because He knows all.
    Another person made a comment that, because Jesus "laid aside" His deity, He also laid aside his "knowing all".
    He probably did NOT know that John had been beheaded.

    Yet, we see multiple instances in the Bible where somebody was asking a question, or disciples were talking among themselves, and Jesus knew what they were really up to.

    So, What did Jesus know, and when did He know it?
    Do you believe Jesus, as the Son of Man on earth, did NOT know - or was not CAPABLE of knowing all?

    Specifically, in Matt 14, could Jesus NOT have known that John had been beheaded?
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  • #2
    Only God knows.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

    Comment


    • #3
      I have wrestled with this question for years and haven't come up with a good answer. It is one of the things that makes the Incarnation so incredible.

      As you say, Jesus was the GodMan. As God, He is omniscient. As man, he is not. I suggest the answer is found in His being sinless. Since He was sinless, His relationship with God the Father was not impaired. So the times He appears to be omniscient, it maybe God the Father or the Holy Spirit had just given Him the answer.
      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

      Comment


      • #4
        We know it wasn't everything because he did not know the date of his return, whereas God the Father did at this point in time (Matthew 24:36).
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          OK, so Jesus was God, and He was also a man - the GodMan, Christ Jesus.
          He "emptied himself" and became a man.....

          So, somebody mentioned last night that when John's disciples came to Jesus, and told him John had been beheaded, that Jesus left to be by Himself (Matt 14)
          They also made the comment that they weren't telling Jesus anything He didn't know, because He knows all.
          Another person made a comment that, because Jesus "laid aside" His deity, He also laid aside his "knowing all".
          He probably did NOT know that John had been beheaded.

          Yet, we see multiple instances in the Bible where somebody was asking a question, or disciples were talking among themselves, and Jesus knew what they were really up to.

          So, What did Jesus know, and when did He know it?
          Do you believe Jesus, as the Son of Man on earth, did NOT know - or was not CAPABLE of knowing all?

          Specifically, in Matt 14, could Jesus NOT have known that John had been beheaded?
          Jesus may have already known about John but when news arrived about it this now meant everyone in his group also knew, and it might be he separated Himself from them because He didn't want to discuss it at the moment.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            We know it wasn't everything because he did not know the date of his return, whereas God the Father did at this point in time (Matthew 24:36).
            Yes, that much we can't dispute.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Jesus may have already known about John but when news arrived about it this now meant everyone in his group also knew, and it might be he separated Himself from them because He didn't want to discuss it at the moment.
              Yeah, because it was John's disciples who came to tell Jesus, so Jesus' disciples would also know.

              And I also have to think there's a "clock is ticking" kind of element --- even though we know something is coming, when we see "road signs" or mile markers, it brings it that much more to the forefront of our thought. John the Baptist is dead - and things are moving quickly.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                OK, so Jesus was God, and He was also a man - the GodMan, Christ Jesus.
                He "emptied himself" and became a man.....

                So, somebody mentioned last night that when John's disciples came to Jesus, and told him John had been beheaded, that Jesus left to be by Himself (Matt 14)
                They also made the comment that they weren't telling Jesus anything He didn't know, because He knows all.
                Another person made a comment that, because Jesus "laid aside" His deity, He also laid aside his "knowing all".
                He probably did NOT know that John had been beheaded.

                Yet, we see multiple instances in the Bible where somebody was asking a question, or disciples were talking among themselves, and Jesus knew what they were really up to.

                So, What did Jesus know, and when did He know it?
                Do you believe Jesus, as the Son of Man on earth, did NOT know - or was not CAPABLE of knowing all?

                Specifically, in Matt 14, could Jesus NOT have known that John had been beheaded?
                I wish I couple double or triple Amen this.

                Say Jesus is omniscient during the Incarnation and you deny He's fully man and becomes God pretending to be a man. Say Jesus is not omniscient during the Incarnation and you deny His fully God and His redemptive work on the cross becomes ineffectual. This is one of those questions we have to struggle with even though we won't get the answer this side of Heaven.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think William Craig hypothesized that Jesus was subconsciously omniscient. So, He may not have consciously have been aware of everything. I wonder if He subconsciously knew that the water the Pharisees were using for ceremonial cleansing was actually full of germs and the disciples didn't need to stick their hands in that? Of course, He would also know there was no need to consciously remember about germ theory to prove His point. Only Jesus would know and wonder if He would mind us asking?
                  If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Maybe he could "turn it on" when he wanted to know something but otherwise he didn't know. Sort of like the "subconscious" CBW talks about above, but able to access it when he wanted to.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OK, so I'm not far off base in observing that, at times, He seemed to be perfectly aware of things He wouldn't know by simply hearing or seeing, but at other times, maybe he didn't "know" just by knowing.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Kinda like if the internet were actually infallible.
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          OK, so I'm not far off base in observing that, at times, He seemed to be perfectly aware of things He wouldn't know by simply hearing or seeing, but at other times, maybe he didn't "know" just by knowing.
                          Well considering he had a fully human brain, he wouldn't be able to hold all knowledge in it all the time. I think that is what they mean by he "emptied" himself. But I think he had access to whatever knowledge he needed or wanted to access. Maybe like having a "library" at his disposal, he had to actively go and get the info he was looking for otherwise it wasn't just there all the time?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yeah, the "emptied himself", to me, is complicated by the fact that He didn't lay aside his GODness, because He still had power over the elements, disease, and all kinds of supernatural powers.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Yeah, the "emptied himself", to me, is complicated by the fact that He didn't lay aside his GODness, because He still had power over the elements, disease, and all kinds of supernatural powers.
                              Isn't that referring to His humility? He didn't go around demanding that people worship him right this second or else. He was more patient with the Pharisees than they deserved. He even paid His life down at the cross instead of summoning legions of angels to come kick butts.
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                              Comment

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