Originally posted by Maranatha
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orthodox Christians only.
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Why the Church is Weak
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
So are discussion boards.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostMy turn to say, this is about me isn't it? smiley runaway.gifThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
You have always been quite perceptive, brudder.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostI was watching a video and really related to what the man was saying. He was talking about the reason the church in the US is so weak these days. I want to see how much posters here agree or disagree with these points.
He had 12 points. I think that was to fill an allotted time slot. I found them a little repetitive so I've consolidate them to 5:- Political Activism: Christians should be involved in politics. The church should not be a political action committee.
- Church as Entertainment: Christian TV and Hipster or Rock-star Pastors have cheapened the Christian message.
- Scandals: the one constant through all the years.
- Weak Evangelism: instead of the members doing evangelism, now we try to do it in the church service. The service instead of being for the members is soft so the unbeliever will be attracted in. He's not a fan of the seeker sensitive movement. The result is false conversions as people don't have a conviction of sin.
- Low View of the Bible: Post Modernism has caused everyone to say what does the Bible mean to me as opposed to being an authority. The Prosperity Gospel, Neo Gospel has changed the message from a relationship with God to solving personal issues. I've personally been in a church the substituted the Bible with a watered down paraphrase.
I think he's also missing what I think will be the next scandal in the church. The number of pastors and leaders who don't believe in God anymore. I think too many are just going through the motions rather than admit they've become agnostic or atheist.
Here's a link. The video is about 30 minutes long. https://wretched.org/12-reasons-why-...ch-is-so-weak/"For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
I realized that if you need a good example of 4 and 5, watch a couple episodes of Your Move with Andy Stanley.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI'm not familiar with Stanley. Are you saying that he exemplifies those issues or discusses them"For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI'm not familiar with Stanley. Are you saying that he exemplifies those issues or discusses themThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
He exemplifies these issues.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
I think Andy is trying to be the "hip" version of Charles - and he and his father were fierce enemies for a time. Don't know if that ever cleared up or not."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostI think Andy is trying to connect the Gospel to today's people. Nothing wrong with that since it's like what Paul does in his sermon in Acts.
However, Andy has so compromised and watered down the Gospel in his message you really can't find it anymore. That is what is wrong with his teaching.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
So are discussion boards.
Someone wrote on why they think church is weak, I don't know what a discussion board has to do with anything.
I can see why political activist entertained people who have a low view of scripture can lead to a church in name only.
It is sort of like asking why are wolves weak on spreading the gospel.
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Originally posted by Maranatha View Post
Discussion boards are weak?Originally posted by Maranatha View Post
Those point to the symptoms of us living in the time where men cannot endure sound doctrine, and heap up these people to push these things. Brick and mortar churches are full of crazy stuff, and wolves.
It's rather disingenuous to imply that my response to the thread title, and not your words to which I responded.
Someone wrote on why they think church is weak, I don't know what a discussion board has to do with anything.
That's why I said "So are discussion boards". Please don't try to twist my words into saying something I did not say.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
That was not what I said or implied. My comment was to a specific post. You had said...
It's rather disingenuous to imply that my response to the thread title, and not your words to which I responded.
You had concluded your statement (to which I responded) with "Brick and mortar churches are full of crazy stuff, and wolves."
That's why I said "So are discussion boards". Please don't try to twist my words into saying something I did not say.
You introduced the inane subject of a message board.
My comment was towards a weak church, and I don't know what you are on about.
You are not familiar enough with me to just randomly comment without me assuming anything. So i.assumed you were tying in message boards to weak churches.
You can go back to your board clique now.
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