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Why the Church is Weak

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

    Sorry but your comment made no sense to the subject which is a weak church.
    Because I was responding to a post, not the title of the thread -- we do that a lot around here.

    You introduced the inane subject of a message board.
    I made a comparison.

    My comment was towards a weak church, and I don't know what you are on about.

    You are not familiar enough with me to just randomly comment without me assuming anything. So i.assumed you were tying in message boards to weak churches.

    You can go back to your board clique now.
    I'll go where I want to, thank you.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #32
      I've been meaning to come back to this thread and finally made the time to do so.


      We had a good discussion on why the church is weak. However, just diagnosing the disease is just half the battle. Now we have to cure it.

      How do we do that:
      • is the obvious starting point
      • church hopping until you find a strong church?
      • try to reform the church your in?
      • join any church and hope for the occasional feeding?
      • join a group trying to strengthen the local church?
      • relocate to an area where churches are stronger?
      • study Judges, Kings, and Chronicles to see how people dealt with low faithfulness?
      • start your own church?
      None of these seem to be good answers. I understand the desert experience but in the desert for years? I haven't been in a strong church since 2015. Is this persecution training? It my worse moments, I conclude that I'm not saved so God won't solve the issue.

      I know - lots of questions and I don't have a good answer. You probably don't have the answer either. I do welcome your thoughts.
      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
        I've been meaning to come back to this thread and finally made the time to do so.


        We had a good discussion on why the church is weak. However, just diagnosing the disease is just half the battle. Now we have to cure it.

        How do we do that:
        • is the obvious starting point
        • church hopping until you find a strong church?
        • try to reform the church your in?
        • join any church and hope for the occasional feeding?
        • join a group trying to strengthen the local church?
        • relocate to an area where churches are stronger?
        • study Judges, Kings, and Chronicles to see how people dealt with low faithfulness?
        • start your own church?
        None of these seem to be good answers. I understand the desert experience but in the desert for years? I haven't been in a strong church since 2015. Is this persecution training? It my worse moments, I conclude that I'm not saved so God won't solve the issue.

        I know - lots of questions and I don't have a good answer. You probably don't have the answer either. I do welcome your thoughts.
        Look for a church on the basis of its sound biblical teaching, and ignore the theatrics, drama and "feelings".
        Don't be drawn in by "the wonderful music" if it's not biblically sound.
        It's all about Jesus. If Jesus isn't the central theme of the Church, keep looking.

        And, finally - if you're looking for the perfect church, and you find it - don't join it, cause you'll ruin it.
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #34
          Hey, Coke poke. Your answer seems a little too drive-by posting. I know my post was a lot of venting but I think there is something in there to respond to. Please try again.
          "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

          "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
            Hey, Coke poke. Your answer seems a little too drive-by posting. I know my post was a lot of venting but I think there is something in there to respond to. Please try again.
            Sure, let's narrow it down to some specific points, OK? I enjoy interacting with you.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
              I was watching a video and really related to what the man was saying. He was talking about the reason the church in the US is so weak these days. I want to see how much posters here agree or disagree with these points.

              He had 12 points. I think that was to fill an allotted time slot. I found them a little repetitive so I've consolidate them to 5:[LIST=1][*]Political Activism: Christians should be involved in politics. The church should not be a political action committee.
              I don't believe we should endorse particular candidates or parties - but simply addressing the issues pretty much narrows the choices.
              Example - when we have "Sanctity of Human Life Sunday" - it's pretty clear that one of the parties is for this and one of the parties is very troublesome in this area.

              [*]Church as Entertainment: Christian TV and Hipster or Rock-star Pastors have cheapened the Christian message.
              Yeah, the preaching of the Word draws people who want to know Christ or grow in Him - the performance stuff is just 'entertainment'.
              I think pastors should preach expository sermons, not just come up with a topic and gather a bunch of Bible verses to back up their story.

              [*]Scandals: the one constant through all the years.
              I refer to this as "a black eye to Jesus" - yes, most certainly these hurt the Church and the cause for Christ.

              I'll stop there for now.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Yeah, the preaching of the Word draws people who want to know Christ or grow in Him - the performance stuff is just 'entertainment'.
                I think pastors should preach expository sermons, not just come up with a topic and gather a bunch of Bible verses to back up their story.
                I'll stop there for now.
                I'm not sure how preaching is being taught in seminaries these days. In recent years, I keep hearing sermons of the pattern: I (the pastor did this), these are the consequences that happened, then God redeemed it. One problem I have is pastor eventually run out of stories. I was at one church long enough that I could recognize what story about to be told.

                The bigger problem is this is a sermon style that starts somewhere and then tries to pull God into it. It can work but it's not God centered. God remains as peripheral as He is in most people life. I think we need more sermons along the lines of Paul's epistles - God is this, He did this, and now we respond by doing this. We need stronger statements about God from the pulpit and then our need to respond to His leading and direction.

                To repeat what I've said elsewhere, the next big scandal in the church will be the discovery of how many pastors, elders, deacons, etc. don't really believe in God and they are just going through the motions.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                  I'm not sure how preaching is being taught in seminaries these days. In recent years, I keep hearing sermons of the pattern: I (the pastor did this), these are the consequences that happened, then God redeemed it. One problem I have is pastor eventually run out of stories. I was at one church long enough that I could recognize what story about to be told.

                  The bigger problem is this is a sermon style that starts somewhere and then tries to pull God into it. It can work but it's not God centered. God remains as peripheral as He is in most people life. I think we need more sermons along the lines of Paul's epistles - God is this, He did this, and now we respond by doing this. We need stronger statements about God from the pulpit and then our need to respond to His leading and direction.

                  To repeat what I've said elsewhere, the next big scandal in the church will be the discovery of how many pastors, elders, deacons, etc. don't really believe in God and they are just going through the motions.
                  Depends on the seminary, and even on the particular professor.

                  My pattern has, for ages, been Expository

                  A) Read the Text (of the Bible, usually going book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse, in manageable passages)
                  2) Explain the passage - context, background - who is speaking, to whom he's speaking, the issue being addressed - with emphasis on what the original speaker was saying to his original audience.
                  C) Apply the passage to our lives -- what does this mean to us? What should we do about it?

                  There are times, however, that a "topical" sermon is appropriate to deal with specific issues in the church.

                  But what do I know?
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Eisegesis is a pet peeve of mine. Exegete properly or go home, people!
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                    Comment

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