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Why the Church is Weak

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  • Why the Church is Weak

    I was watching a video and really related to what the man was saying. He was talking about the reason the church in the US is so weak these days. I want to see how much posters here agree or disagree with these points.

    He had 12 points. I think that was to fill an allotted time slot. I found them a little repetitive so I've consolidate them to 5:
    1. Political Activism: Christians should be involved in politics. The church should not be a political action committee.
    2. Church as Entertainment: Christian TV and Hipster or Rock-star Pastors have cheapened the Christian message.
    3. Scandals: the one constant through all the years.
    4. Weak Evangelism: instead of the members doing evangelism, now we try to do it in the church service. The service instead of being for the members is soft so the unbeliever will be attracted in. He's not a fan of the seeker sensitive movement. The result is false conversions as people don't have a conviction of sin.
    5. Low View of the Bible: Post Modernism has caused everyone to say what does the Bible mean to me as opposed to being an authority. The Prosperity Gospel, Neo Gospel has changed the message from a relationship with God to solving personal issues. I've personally been in a church the substituted the Bible with a watered down paraphrase.
    A few comments. While he's calls on pastors to be qualified, I think he misses how much the elders have failed to maintain the church. I've seen too many unqualified elders in my time. I think in general, the church needs better leadership beyond just the pastor.

    I think he's also missing what I think will be the next scandal in the church. The number of pastors and leaders who don't believe in God anymore. I think too many are just going through the motions rather than admit they've become agnostic or atheist.

    Here's a link. The video is about 30 minutes long. https://wretched.org/12-reasons-why-...ch-is-so-weak/
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

  • #2
    I really like Wretched. I absolutely agree with him and with your condensation of the main points. Spot on.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

    Comment


    • #3
      I remembered the other item I think he missed. The church has bought into society's view that men do not have a useful contribution to make and everything needs to be centered on women. Men just stop going to church when they're not ministered to and bashed from the pulpit. The classic example: Mother's Day: "women, you're doing great." Father's Day: "men, you got to do better."
      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
        I remembered the other item I think he missed. The church has bought into society's view that men do not have a useful contribution to make and everything needs to be centered on women. Men just stop going to church when they're not ministered to and bashed from the pulpit. The classic example: Mother's Day: "women, you're doing great." Father's Day: "men, you got to do better."
        That's because most pastors have wives.

        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #5
          I have to admit, I've got some pretty good men.

          We have a "Pastor & Men - Tuesdays @ 10" meeting where the men of the church can come by for a cup of coffee and spend some time with the pastor.
          Since most of our deacons / elders are retired, or in positions at work where they can take Tuesday mornings off, we usually have a good group meeting.
          The purpose was for the pastor to have a "sounding board" for ideas, projects, proposals -- kind of a screening for issues that will go to business meetings.

          The men who come are very faithful, some of them attending by zoom if they're out of town or have to work or home for Covid or whatever.

          Fact is - particularly because of Covid - this group has functioned as a kind of deacon and elder meeting, as we have not been having business meetings.
          The Church seems totally fine with that.

          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I have to admit, I've got some pretty good men.

            We have a "Pastor & Men - Tuesdays @ 10" meeting where the men of the church can come by for a cup of coffee and spend some time with the pastor.
            Since most of our deacons / elders are retired, or in positions at work where they can take Tuesday mornings off, we usually have a good group meeting.
            The purpose was for the pastor to have a "sounding board" for ideas, projects, proposals -- kind of a screening for issues that will go to business meetings.

            The men who come are very faithful, some of them attending by zoom if they're out of town or have to work or home for Covid or whatever.

            Fact is - particularly because of Covid - this group has functioned as a kind of deacon and elder meeting, as we have not been having business meetings.
            The Church seems totally fine with that.
            But you have a strong pastor in your church, who rightly divides the word of God and doesn't buy in to all the social justice/women's "rights" poop that so many churches are concerning themselves with. You know and teach that it's all about Jesus.


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mossrose View Post

              But you have a strong pastor in your church, who rightly divides the word of God and doesn't buy in to all the social justice/women's "rights" poop that so many churches are concerning themselves with. You know and teach that it's all about Jesus.
              We are in the process of looking at alternatives to Facebook for livestreaming - because Facebook seems bent on silencing conservative voices. Right now, it looks like their main focus is on 'politics', but simply preaching the issues, without even mentioning politics, can be seen as "politics". :sad;
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                ... it's all about Jesus.
                Hey!!! That could be our MOTTO!!!!

                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  We are in the process of looking at alternatives to Facebook for livestreaming - because Facebook seems bent on silencing conservative voices. Right now, it looks like their main focus is on 'politics', but simply preaching the issues, without even mentioning politics, can be seen as "politics". :sad;
                  It is indeed sad, but not unexpected. Christ was persecuted, so shall we be, and persecution always purifies the church.


                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    Hey!!! That could be our MOTTO!!!!
                    I don't know where I got it from!


                    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                      A few comments. While he's calls on pastors to be qualified, I think he misses how much the elders have failed to maintain the church. I've seen too many unqualified elders in my time. I think in general, the church needs better leadership beyond just the pastor.
                      Far too many deacons and elders appear to seek the position as a way to promote themselves whether it be at the personal level, their business, or because they plan on running for political office.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's supposed to be about "promoting"/glorifying Jesus! Not some stupid political powee grab. Foolish humans!
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post

                          Far too many deacons and elders appear to seek the position as a way to promote themselves whether it be at the personal level, their business, or because they plan on running for political office.
                          Which is why I was always taught "never look for a man looking for the position - look for the man who's already doing the job even though he doesn't hold the position".
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            Which is why I was always taught "never look for a man looking for the position - look for the man who's already doing the job even though he doesn't hold the position".
                            That's how I ended up getting promoted at various places I've worked. I was already doing the job because it needed doing.

                            Ironically, the only time I ever sought a promotion I was turned down. The person in charge picked her best friend's boyfriend -- the least qualified person who applied. Nearly half those who would now be working under him quit in protest and I understand he was later terminated for theft.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                              I was watching a video and really related to what the man was saying. He was talking about the reason the church in the US is so weak these days. I want to see how much posters here agree or disagree with these points.

                              He had 12 points. I think that was to fill an allotted time slot. I found them a little repetitive so I've consolidate them to 5:
                              1. Political Activism: Christians should be involved in politics. The church should not be a political action committee.
                              2. Church as Entertainment: Christian TV and Hipster or Rock-star Pastors have cheapened the Christian message.
                              3. Scandals: the one constant through all the years.
                              4. Weak Evangelism: instead of the members doing evangelism, now we try to do it in the church service. The service instead of being for the members is soft so the unbeliever will be attracted in. He's not a fan of the seeker sensitive movement. The result is false conversions as people don't have a conviction of sin.
                              5. Low View of the Bible: Post Modernism has caused everyone to say what does the Bible mean to me as opposed to being an authority. The Prosperity Gospel, Neo Gospel has changed the message from a relationship with God to solving personal issues. I've personally been in a church the substituted the Bible with a watered down paraphrase.
                              A few comments. While he's calls on pastors to be qualified, I think he misses how much the elders have failed to maintain the church. I've seen too many unqualified elders in my time. I think in general, the church needs better leadership beyond just the pastor.

                              I think he's also missing what I think will be the next scandal in the church. The number of pastors and leaders who don't believe in God anymore. I think too many are just going through the motions rather than admit they've become agnostic or atheist.

                              Here's a link. The video is about 30 minutes long. https://wretched.org/12-reasons-why-...ch-is-so-weak/
                              Those point to the symptoms of us living in the time where men cannot endure sound doctrine, and heap up these people to push these things. Brick and mortar churches are full of crazy stuff, and wolves.

                              Comment

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