My main issue with the so-called "Billy Graham rule" is that in an age where professional promotions are based upon connections more than ever, it puts women at an artificially imposed disadvantage to build these connections. This can cause women to question whether Christian ethics/the gospel are truly good news for them (which is a subject that apologists have spilled tons of ink already). Also, it seems to unfairly disadvantage women when it should be the men that are taking control over their own urges. Jesus basically came out and said that if you can't control yourself, you should castrate yourself, rather than placing the burden on others. I know it's hyperbole but the point remains - men should take control over their own thought lives. I don't see not cheating as something particularly difficult myself, speaking as somebody who has acted as a work trainer at several workplaces and thus had to spend time with quite a few people of the opposite sex in a professional capacity.
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
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Doesn't the Billy Graham rule professionally hurt women?
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Doesn't the Billy Graham rule professionally hurt women?
"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard RavenhillTags: None
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I always thought folks like Pence followed that rule (assuming I'm speaking about the same thing) because of the potential for false accusations and bogus sexual harassment charges, not necessarily for lack of self-control. Kind of like when a nurse is usually present when a male doctor is examining a female patient -- for legal protection.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostI always thought folks like Pence followed that rule (assuming I'm speaking about the same thing) because of the potential for false accusations and bogus sexual harassment charges, not necessarily for lack of self-control. Kind of like when a nurse is usually present when a male doctor is examining a female patient -- for legal protection."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
I know that plays into it as well for many people, but at least around here it's more often been discussed in terms of personal virtue (see for example Nick's latest blog post about Ravi Z.)
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Originally posted by seanD View Post
But how can you ever be sure of the intent behind the rule today, unless they openly express their intent? I can understand the fear as a male of being falsely accused or even having situations like that misinterpreted by others, necessitating a rule like that."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
I know that plays into it as well for many people, but at least around here it's more often been discussed in terms of personal virtue (see for example Nick's latest blog post about Ravi Z.)
I'm ALWAYS in view of my admin (or other person) when I have a woman in my office.
I have been accused twice of sexual misconduct, and both times it was so obviously false, because there were witnesses.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostI always thought folks like Pence followed that rule (assuming I'm speaking about the same thing) because of the potential for false accusations and bogus sexual harassment charges, not necessarily for lack of self-control. Kind of like when a nurse is usually present when a male doctor is examining a female patient -- for legal protection.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostI always thought folks like Pence followed that rule (assuming I'm speaking about the same thing) because of the potential for false accusations and bogus sexual harassment charges, not necessarily for lack of self-control. Kind of like when a nurse is usually present when a male doctor is examining a female patient -- for legal protection.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostGiven the times we live in where women are often the boss and how "cougars" are treated by society at large as something laudable and to be emulated (TV series have been devoted to the premise), it might not be long before we start seeing the Billy Graham rule being applied to women as well.
As he was struggling with what to do about this, the woman boss's husband found out about an different affair she was having, and they got into such a big battle (even in the workplace) that the woman lost her job. My friend got promoted to her position.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostSo, no two adults together in private? And definitely not with a child or teen!The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Applying it only to men meeting with women comes off as treating women as children to me. It takes two to tango and women can be the aggressor also. Look at what happen to Joseph! Would Potipher's wife have been sexually harrasing Joseph?If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostApplying it only to men meeting with women comes off as treating women as children to me.
It takes two to tango and women can be the aggressor also. Look at what happen to Joseph! Would Potipher's wife have been sexually harrasing Joseph?
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Times have changed - that USED to be the major problem - men abusing or taking advantage of women.
You realize, perhaps, that's not a 'pattern' in the Bible, eh?
Also consider how that people stepped out of Christian ministry because they had an emotional relationship with someone. In many cases, probably what is referred to as a work-spouse.
Women shouldn't be discriminated against professionally. However give the prevalence of sin, everyone needs rules to protect themselves."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
While men's power to abuse is probably down, the culture is more sexualized than when Billy Graham published his rule. His rule needs to be updated to include all the possible combinations of men and women and how they can harass each other. Lots of workplaces now have dating and relationship rules for employees to try to head off harassment lawsuits.
Also consider how that people stepped out of Christian ministry because they had an emotional relationship with someone. In many cases, probably what is referred to as a work-spouse.
Women shouldn't be discriminated against professionally. However give the prevalence of sin, everyone needs rules to protect themselves.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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