Announcement

Collapse

Christianity 201 Guidelines

orthodox Christians only.

Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.

The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

The Most Difficult Teaching

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
    1. A wife being submissive to her husband becuase he is her head.
    2. Codemning Roman Catholicism, Mormonism and a whole host of others for their heretical teachings.
    3. Specifically calling out heretics by name.
    (1) especially, yes.
    For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I remember reading Craig Blomberg write something to that effect, and he also suggested that somebody who never gave anything is not giving evidence of salvation. (Now, in the case of those who are in genuine poverty, it may well be that their giving consists of something else.)
      Yes. I think it all gets back to having a heart of generosity. Giving is not just limited to money, but to every aspect of our lives. God blesses us so that we may be a blessing to others:

      e.g.
      God gives us money, so that we can bless others financially
      God gives us knowledge so that we can teach others.
      God forgives us so that we can forgive others.
      God loves us so that we can love others.
      etc.
      etc.


      It is also interesting to contemplate the fact that God never requires us to give something that we don't have. In fact, if we are honest, God only asks us to give what He has already given us.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
        1. A wife being submissive to her husband becuase he is her head.
        A man giving honor to his wife, because she is the weaker vessel.

        Marriage relations can be a difficult topic, but the New Testament teachings on divorce and re-marriage are perhaps even more fraught with peril from a pastor's perspective than money.

        2. Codemning Roman Catholicism, Mormonism and a whole host of others for their heretical teachings.
        3. Specifically calling out heretics by name.
        Not sure how this is difficult (or even pulpit material, unless the congregation is showing some tendency to accept heretical teachings as legitimate). There are certainly churches which are unwilling to condemn heresies because they don't want to offend people, but on the flip side there are churches which will use the slightest difference as a pretext for charging others with heresy.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          A man giving honor to his wife, because she is the weaker vessel.

          Marriage relations can be a difficult topic, but the New Testament teachings on divorce and re-marriage are perhaps even more fraught with peril from a pastor's perspective than money.


          Not sure how this is difficult (or even pulpit material, unless the congregation is showing some tendency to accept heretical teachings as legitimate). There are certainly churches which are unwilling to condemn heresies because they don't want to offend people, but on the flip side there are churches which will use the slightest difference as a pretext for charging others with heresy.
          Seeing that extent that feminism has infiltrated the church that even Christians do not even believe the headship of the husband our moral basis for defending what the Bible says concerning what God expects from the husband and wife as well as children has been severely discredited.

          When people are not warned about and are often encouraged to join hands with those who deny the Trinity, pray to/worship anything/anyone that is not God and insist that a person is not justified by faith alone the line between what is Christianity and what is not Christianity has been crossed.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
            Seeing that extent that feminism has infiltrated the church that even Christians do not even believe the headship of the husband our moral basis for defending what the Bible says concerning what God expects from the husband and wife as well as children has been severely discredited.
            I agree. I went to a church where the pastor seemed to go out of his way to critize men. Probably no wonder the church was mostly women. I won't worry about marriage (I personally think its over emphasised in church) until the church has a better view of men.

            Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
            When people are not warned about and are often encouraged to join hands with those who deny the Trinity, pray to/worship anything/anyone that is not God and insist that a person is not justified by faith alone the line between what is Christianity and what is not Christianity has been crossed.
            Yes.
            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

            Comment


            • #21
              Sad to hear about what you encountered. We see the bashing of fathers in the stupid sit-coms ad nauseam. I never watch them I just see clips reporting on it.

              Here's what I gather from what the Bible teaches:

              1. Are you ravished with love for your wife (Proverbs 5:19 - shahgah - pronounced shaygay)?
              2. Do you attempt to love your wife as Christ loved the church (Ephesians 5:25)?
              3. Do you hold any kind of bitterness against your wife (Colossians 3:19)?
              4. Do you have a special honor for your wife in your heart (1 Peter 3:7)?
              Wives
              1. Barring sin (Acts 5:29) are you willing to submit to your husband in everything (Ephesians 5:24)?
              2. Do you have a godly fear for your husband (Ephesians 5:33)?
              3. Do you treat your husband as the God appointed master of your marriage (1 Peter 3:6)?
              4. Do you have a gentle and quiet spirit (1 Peter 3:4) speaking the law of kindness (Proverbs 31:26)?
              Last edited by foudroyant; 02-28-2014, 06:34 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                Sad to hear about what you encountered. We see the bashing of fathers in the stupid sit-coms ad nauseam. I never watch them I just see clips reporting on it.

                Here's what I gather from what the Bible teaches:

                1. Are you ravished with love for your wife (Proverbs 5:19 - shahgah - pronounced shaygay)?
                2. Do you attempt to love your wife as Christ loved the church (Ephesians 5:25)?
                3. Do you hold any kind of bitterness against your wife (Colossians 3:19)?
                4. Do you have a special honor for your wife in your heart (1 Peter 3:7)?
                Wives
                1. Barring sin (Acts 5:29) are you willing to submit to your husband in everything (Ephesians 5:24)?
                2. Do you have a godly fear for your husband (Ephesians 5:33)?
                3. Do you treat your husband as the God appointed master of your marriage (1 Peter 3:6)?
                4. Do you have a gentle and quiet spirit (1 Peter 3:4) speaking the law of kindness (Proverbs 31:26)?
                I think it pretty much covers the Bible teaching on marriage. I'm thinking of the stuff that has been added:

                1. A husband and wife are soul mates. I never really seen that in the Bible and I've read its actually a Greek concepts that has come into the teaching.
                2. God first, family second, others third. Seems to me someone is just trying to prioritize masters. It should be God first. Consider these two teachings from Jesus:

                “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple." - Luke 14:26
                "“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." - Matthew 10:21-22

                Here's a new hard teaching for the list - your family may end up being the ones who betray you as your follow Christ.
                Last edited by Thoughtful Monk; 02-28-2014, 06:47 PM. Reason: left out a word
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                Comment


                • #23
                  While I agree that God is always first, I do think that there is a risk here of understating the importance of family. Consider 1 Timothy 5:8: Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    While I agree that God is always first, I do think that there is a risk here of understating the importance of family. Consider 1 Timothy 5:8: Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
                    Everything you say is true. I just feel the church is overemphasing the marriage relationship.
                    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      There are a lot of hard teachings. My vote right now is for Jesus saying about the striving to enter the narrow gate rather than the wide one. Not everyone is accepting of the idea that the right way would be so challenging.


                      Matt 7:13*- 14 “Enter through the narrow gate.*For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.*14*But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it..."
                      Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        While I agree that God is always first, I do think that there is a risk here of understating the importance of family. Consider 1 Timothy 5:8: Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
                        I believe there's always a middle ground. I mean, there's only so far you can take it until you're unable to function in this life. It's more about one's mindset. It's just that the church seems to always go in the extreme opposite of what Jesus taught. Jesus' teaching on money vs. prosperity teaching and general political views towards wealth and the wealthy class. Jesus' teaching about the family vs. political Christianity's hyper-promotion of the family. It's just kind of odd.
                        Last edited by seanD; 03-01-2014, 11:58 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seanD View Post
                          I believe there's always a middle ground. It's more about one's mindset. It's just that the church seems to always go in the extreme opposite of what Jesus taught. Jesus' teaching on money vs. prosperity teaching and their political views towards wealth. Jesus' teaching about the family vs. political Christianity's hyper-promotion of the family. It's just kind of odd.
                          The social importance of the family unit is a theme that pops up throughout Scripture and I don't see Jesus's statement as contradicting this in general. It seems that Jesus is simply stating a matter of priority; that one has to dispense with one's family if need be for the integrity of the faith. I believe most any Christian worth their salt would agree with this if asked. More specifically, it seems Jesus has in mind situations where one's family directly opposes the gospel. I have never been in this position so I do not know how the church tends to do in ministering to people in this situation, so I can't pass judgment here.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            The social importance of the family unit is a theme that pops up throughout Scripture and I don't see Jesus's statement as contradicting this in general. It seems that Jesus is simply stating a matter of priority; that one has to dispense with one's family if need be for the integrity of the faith. More specifically, it seems Jesus has in mind situations where one's family directly opposes the gospel. I believe most any Christian worth their salt would agree with this if asked.
                            I don't think you can reconcile Jesus' teaching about family and wealth and Christianity's political promotion of these subjects. I'm not saying abandon one's family and abandon one's livelihood. Again, I'm talking the extreme opposite ways they're being presented.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by phat8594 View Post

                              What do you believe are some of the most difficult teachings for a preacher to teach / congregation to hear?
                              I'm not sure which sermons or homilies are the most difficult to give, or even which are the most difficult for people to receive. However, I do know what I would have trouble answering if I were called upon to give a sermon or talk on the subject, and I think these represent the issues which pose a serious intellectual obstacle to Christianity in our day. Here are a few of the ones which I find keep me up at night:

                              1. That animals do not have subsistent souls and that consciousness is nevertheless not reducible to material configurations. (Note that both conjuncts are actually articles of 'tradition' with a small 't').

                              2. That there are good moral arguments, based on Christianity, for both Veganism and Vegetarianism, and that there are also good (theological) reasons to be circumspect about actually being either Vegan or Vegetarian (namely to avoid giving credence to Utilitarianism).

                              3. That God, if the Scriptures are inerrant, killed innocent people as an expression of punishment (for instance, all the children in the flood, assuming that children are innocent; at least not guilty of personal sin).

                              4. That the defense of Marriage as a pre-political institution is a duty of all reasoning people of good will, and that to change this institution redounds to the (moral) detriment of the whole body politic.

                              5. That, appearances to the contrary, the Bible is inerrant and that (some) appearances to the contrary, the Catholic Church, in her ordinary magisterium, is infallible (the latter is obviously a concern only for a Catholic).

                              6. That there is a natural law (a moral law) which can be captured by a statement of a categorical imperative, and (therefore) that it is always and everywhere wrong for anyone to lie to the Nazi about hiding Jews, or the ax murderer about hiding children (obvious exceptions in the form of caveats apply: one must always follow one's conscience, even if malformed, et cetera).

                              7. That the efficacy of prayer seems impervious to scientific observation for good reasons.

                              8. That slavery is not categorically wrong (thus the prison system, and the slavery tolerated in scripture), or else that slavery is categorically wrong and God nevertheless abided it because abolishing slavery (and other forms of social injustice) was simply not morally, politically, legally and culturally viable and couldn't have been virtuous. (Notice that in the prison system the 'slave' is the property of the commonwealth, an artificial man, and that though he cannot be bought, sold, or treated as a piece of property in any economic sense, he can be made to work, and even put to death, against his will and without his consent).

                              9. That Molinism is false and God is nevertheless strongly provident, or else that Molinism is true and the Principle of Sufficient Reason underlying all or most cosmological arguments for the existence of God is false.

                              10. That women, whether by reason of the Sacrament's matter or its form, cannot in principle be ordained, or else that ordained women, because of the form of the Eucharist, would never be able to celebrate Mass in the character of a priest. (Again, very Catholic).

                              Well, those are about the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.
                              Last edited by Tyrel; 03-02-2014, 04:07 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by seanD View Post
                                I don't think you can reconcile Jesus' teaching about family and wealth and Christianity's political promotion of these subjects. I'm not saying abandon one's family and abandon one's livelihood. Again, I'm talking the extreme opposite ways they're being presented.
                                I know we agree on how political Christianity falls short for a number of reasons.
                                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Thoughtful Monk, 03-15-2024, 06:19 PM
                                35 responses
                                166 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by KingsGambit, 03-15-2024, 02:12 PM
                                4 responses
                                49 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Thoughtful Monk  
                                Started by Chaotic Void, 03-08-2024, 07:36 AM
                                10 responses
                                120 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post mikewhitney  
                                Started by Cow Poke, 02-29-2024, 07:55 AM
                                14 responses
                                72 views
                                3 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by Cow Poke, 02-28-2024, 11:56 AM
                                13 responses
                                60 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Working...
                                X