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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

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Revelation

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  • Originally posted by hansgeorg View Post
    "Epi" here means "on" as a tattoo, not "in" as a piece of coined money is in a hand?
    hansgeorg,

    I ask you to not post again in this thread or and any other of my threads.

    If you wish to communicate with me, start another thread of your own for that purpose.

    Thanks

    Comment


    • Revelation 13:17

      Text: (NA27):
      καὶ ἵνα μή τις δύνηται ἀγοράσαι ἢ πωλῆσαι εἰ μὴ ὁ ἔχων τὸ χάραγμα τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θηρίου ἢ τὸν ἀριθμός αὐτοῦ.

      Transliteration (Accordance):
      kai hina mē tis dynētai agorasai ē pōlēsai ei mē ho echōn to charagma to onoma tou thēriou ē ton arithmon tou onomatos autou.

      Translation (NRSV):
      so that no one can buy or sell who does not have the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.

      Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
      καὶ ἵνα μή : dependent on ποιεῖ in verse 16.
      δύνηται : subjunctive of δύναμαι to possess capability (whether because of personal or external factors) for experiencing or doing something, can, am able, be capable.
      ἀγοράσαι : aorist infinitive of ἀγοράζω buy (in the ἀγορά market place).
      πωλῆσαι : aorist infinitive of πωλέω sell.
      εἰ μὴ ὁ ἔχων : "if not one possessing" ; unless he had.
      ἀριθμός : number, ἀριθμὸν τοῦ ὀνόματος i.e. sum of the numbers corresponding to the letters of his name.

      Comment


      • Revelation 13:18

        Text: (NA27):
        Ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν. ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου, ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστίν, καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ ἑξακόσιοι ἑξήκοντα ἕξ.

        Transliteration (Accordance):
        hŌde hē sophia estin. ho echōn noun psēphisatō ton arithmon tou thēriou, arithmos gar anthrōpou estin, kai ho arithmos autou hexakosioi hexēkonta hex.

        Translation (NRSV):
        This calls for wisdom: let anyone with understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person. Its number is six hundred sixty-six.

        Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
        ὧδε : a position or point that is relatively near (literally there is wisdom [i.e. something deep] here) this calls for discernment Rv 13:18.
        ἡ σοφία : here, the secret, the answer.
        νοῦς, νοός, νοΐ, νοῦν, ὁ : mind, intelligence.
        ψηφισάτω : aorist imperative 3rd singular of ψηφίζω (ψῆφος a pebble used in voting: a black one for conviction, a white one for acquittal, voting-pebble) count (originally with pebbles), reckon, calulate.
        ἑξακόσιοι : (χ') = 600.
        ἑξήκοντα : (ξ') = 60 [[variant δεκα 10, i.e. in all 616]].
        ἕξ : (ζ') = 6.

        Comment


        • Revelation 14:1

          Text: (NA27):
          Καὶ εἶδον, καὶ ἰδοὺ τὸ ἀρνίον ἑστὸς ἐπὶ τὸ ὄρος Σιὼν καὶ μετ᾿ αὐτοῦ ἑκατὸν τεσσεράκοντα τέσσαρες χιλιάδες ἔχουσαι τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ καὶ τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς αὐτοῦ γεγραμμένον ἐπὶ τῶν μετώπων αὐτῶν.

          Transliteration (Accordance):
          Kai eidon, kai idou to arnion hestos epi to oros Siōn kai met’ autou hekaton tesserakonta tessares chiliades echousai to onoma autou kai to onoma tou patros autou gegrammenon epi tōn metōpōn autōn.

          Translation (NRSV):
          Then I looked, and there was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion! And with him were one hundred forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

          Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
          καὶ εἶδον, καὶ ἰδού : Hebraism meaning "I had a vision of..."
          ἀρνίον : lamb.
          ἑστός : perfect (intransitive) neuter participle of ἵστημι.
          ἑκατόν = 100.
          τεσσεράκοντα = 40.
          τέσσαρες = 4.
          χιλιάς, -άδος, ἡ : thousand (considered as an entity ― a group of a thousand).
          ἔχουσαι : feminine participle of ἔχω agreeing with χιλιάδες.
          γεγραμμένον : perfect passive participle of γράφω write.
          μετώπων : forehead.

          Comment


          • Revelation 14:2

            Text: (NA27):
            καὶ ἤκουσα φωνὴν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὡς φωνὴν ὑδάτων πολλῶν καὶ ὡς φωνὴν βροντῆς μεγάλης, καὶ ἡ φωνὴ ἣν ἤκουσα ὡς κιθαρῳδῶν κιθαριζόντων ἐν ταῖς κιθάραις αὐτῶν.

            Transliteration (Accordance):
            kai ēkousa phōnēn ek tou ouranou hōs phōnēn hydatōn pollōn kai hōs phōnēn brontēs megalēs, kai hē phōnē hēn ēkousa hōs kitharō̧dōn kitharizontōn en tais kitharais autōn.

            Translation (NRSV):
            And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps

            Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
            ἤκουσα : aorist of ἀκούω hear.
            φωνὴν ὑδάτων πολλῶν : roar of the ocean.
            βροντή : thunder.
            κιθαρῳδός : harpist who accompanies his own song.
            κιθαριζόντων : participle of κιθαρίζω (ἐν) play (on) the harp ; participle renewed by καί coordinate if indicative (verse 3).
            κιθάρα : harp.

            Comment


            • Revelation 14:3

              Text: (NA27):
              καὶ ᾄδουσιν [ὡς] ᾠδὴν καινὴν ἐνώπιον τοῦ θρόνου καὶ ἐνώπιον τῶν τεσσάρων ζῴων καὶ τῶν πρεσβυτέρων, καὶ οὐδεὶς ἐδύνατο μαθεῖν τὴν ᾠδὴν εἰ μὴ αἱ ἑκατὸν τεσσεράκοντα τέσσαρες χιλιάδες, οἱ ἠγορασμένοι ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς.

              Transliteration (Accordance):
              kai a̧dousin [hōs] ō̧dēn kainēn enōpion tou thronou kai enōpion tōn tessarōn zō̧ōn kai tōn presbyterōn, kai oudeis edynato mathein tēn ō̧dēn ei mē hai hekaton tesserakonta tessares chiliades, hoi ēgorasmenoi apo tēs gēs.

              Translation (NRSV):
              and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the one hundred forty-four thousand who have been redeemed from the earth.

              Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
              ᾄδω : sing.
              ὡς : if true reading here, what seemed to be.
              θρόνος : throne.
              ζῷον : in Apocalypse [Revelation] as in Ezekiel living creature.
              ἐδύνατο : imperfect of δύναμαι to possess capability (whether because of personal or external factors) for experiencing or doing something, can, am able, be capable.
              μαθεῖν : aorist infinitive of μανθάνω learn.
              εἰ μή : except
              ἠγορασμένοι : perfect passive participle of ἀγοράζω buy (in the agora, market place).

              Comment


              • Revelation 14:4

                Text: (NA27):
                οὗτοί εἰσιν οἳ μετὰ γυναικῶν οὐκ ἐμολύνθησαν, παρθένοι γάρ εἰσιν, οὗτοι οἱ ἀκολουθοῦντες τῷ ἀρνίῳ ὅπου ἂν ὑπάγῃ. οὗτοι ἠγοράσθησαν ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἀπαρχὴ τῷ θεῷ καὶ τῷ ἀρνίῳ,

                Transliteration (Accordance):
                houtoi eisin hoi meta gynaikōn ouk emolynthēsan, parthenoi gar eisin, houtoi hoi akolouthountes tō̧ arniō̧ hopou an hypagȩ̄. houtoi ēgorasthēsan apo tōn anthrōpōn aparchē tō̧ theō̧ kai tō̧ arniō̧,

                Translation (NRSV):
                It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; these follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been redeemed from humankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb,

                Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
                ἐμολύνθησαν : aorist passive of μολύνω defile.
                παρθένος : virgin.
                οὗτοι : (2nd time) sc. εἰσίν.
                ἀκολουθοῦντες : participle of ἀκολουθέω (τινί) follow (one).
                ἀρνίον : lamb.
                ὅπου ἄν : wherever.
                ὑπάγῃ : subjunctive of ὑπάγω go away, go.
                ἠγοράσθησαν : aorist passive of ἀγοράζω have been bought, here redeemed.
                ἀπό : from among.
                ἀπαρχή : first-fruits, metonymy of the first to be consecrated to God in baptism.

                Comment


                • Revelation 14:5

                  Text: (NA27):
                  καὶ ἐν τῷ στόματι αὐτῶν οὐχ εὑρέθη ψεῦδος, ἄμωμοί εἰσιν.

                  Transliteration (Accordance):
                  kai en tō̧ stomati autōn ouch heurethē pseudos, amōmoi eisin.

                  Translation (NRSV):
                  and in their mouth no lie was found; they are blameless.

                  Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
                  εὑρέθη : aorist passive of εὑρίσκω (find), passive in Hebrew sense of be 12:8.
                  ψεῦδος : a lie.
                  ἄμωμος : without blemish.

                  Comment


                  • Revelation 14:6

                    Text: (NA27):
                    Καὶ εἶδον ἄλλον ἄγγελον πετόμενον ἐν μεσουρανήματι, ἔχοντα εὐαγγέλιον αἰώνιον εὐαγγελίσαι ἐπὶ τοὺς καθημένους ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐπὶ πᾶν ἔθνος καὶ φυλὴν καὶ γλῶσσαν καὶ λαόν

                    Transliteration (Accordance):
                    Kai eidon allon aggelon petomenon en mesouranēmati, echonta euaggelion aiōnion euaggelisai epi tous kathēmenous epi tēs gēs kai epi pan ethnos kai phylēn kai glōssan kai laon

                    Translation (NRSV):
                    Then I saw another angel flying in midheaven, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation and tribe and language and people.

                    Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
                    πετόμενον : participle of πέτομαι fly.
                    μεσουράνημα : midheaven, zenith, ἐν μεσουρανήματι high overhead.
                    ἔχοντα : participle of ἔχω have.
                    εὐαγγέλιον αἰώνιον : eternal gospel i.e. which does not change.
                    εὐαγγελίσαι : aorist infinitive εὐαγγελίζω preach the gospel.
                    καθημένους : sitting, participle of κάθημαι ; in Hebrew the same verb that is commonly used for dwell : τοὺς καθημένους those dwelling/living.
                    ἔθνος : nation.
                    φυλή : tribe.
                    γλῶσσα : tongue, language.

                    Comment


                    • Revelation 14:7

                      Text: (NA27):
                      λέγων ἐν φωνῇ μεγάλῃ· φοβήθητε τὸν θεὸν καὶ δότε αὐτῷ δόξαν, ὅτι ἦλθεν ἡ ὥρα τῆς κρίσεως αὐτοῦ, καὶ προσκυνήσατε τῷ ποιήσαντι τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν καὶ θάλασσαν καὶ πηγὰς ὑδάτων

                      Transliteration (Accordance):
                      legōn en phōnȩ̄ megalȩ̄; phobēthēte ton theon kai dote autō̧ doxan, hoti ēlthen hē hōra tēs kriseōs autou, kai proskynēsate tō̧ poiēsanti ton ouranon kai tēn gēn kai thalassan kai pēgas hydatōn.

                      Translation (NRSV):
                      He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, for the hour of his judgment has come; and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

                      Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
                      λέγων : participle of λέγω say ; treated as indeclinable (Hebraism).
                      φοβήθητε : aorist imperative deponent of φέβομαι to be in an apprehensive state, be afraid, the aorist often in the sense become frightened, fear someone or something.
                      δότε : aorist of δίδωμι give.
                      κρίσις : judgment.
                      προσκυνήσατε : aorist imperative of προσκυνέω to express in attitude or gesture one’s complete dependence on or submission to a high authority figure, (fall down and) worship, do obeisance to, prostrate oneself before, do reverence to.
                      ποιήσαντι : aorist participle of ποιέω make.
                      πηγή : spring of water.

                      Comment


                      • Revelation 14:8

                        Text: (NA27):
                        Καὶ ἄλλος ἄγγελος δεύτερος ἠκολούθησεν λέγων·
                        ἔπεσεν ἔπεσεν Βαβυλὼν ἡ μεγάλη ἣ ἐκ τοῦ οἴνου τοῦ θυμοῦ τῆς πορνείας αὐτῆς πεπότικεν πάντα τὰ ἔθνη.

                        Transliteration (Accordance):
                        Kai allos aggelos deuteros ēkolouthēsen legōn;
                        epesen epesen Babylōn hē megalē hē ek tou oinou tou thymou tēs porneias autēs pepotiken panta ta ethnē.

                        Translation (NRSV):
                        Then another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”

                        Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
                        ἄλλος : another, in apposition to δεύτερος a second.
                        ἠκολούθησεν : aorist of ἀκολουθέω to follow or accompany someone who takes the lead, accompany, go along with, often of the crowd following Jesus.
                        ἔπεσεν : aorist of πίπτω fall.
                        οἶνος : wine.
                        θυμός : a state of intense displeasure, anger, wrath, rage, indignation ; also passion (cf. verse 10 and English a "rage", and colloquial, a "rage for something").
                        πορνεία : unlawful sexual intercourse, fornication, θυμοῦ τῆς πορνείας αὐτῆς her licentious passion ― "Hebrew" genitive [BG §40 "Of the type of genitive commonly listed by grammarians, the one which approaches most closely the "general" genitive is the "attributive" or "qualitative" one, also called the "Hebrew" genitive inasmuch as its scope and use in Biblical Greek is extended, owing to Semitic influence, to many expression to which the Greeks used not a genitive but an adjective".] In OT πορνεία and πορνεύω frequently refer to idolatry.
                        πεπότικεν : perfect of ποτίζω give to drink

                        Comment


                        • Revelation 14:9-10

                          Text: (NA27):
                          Rev. 14:9 Καὶ ἄλλος ἄγγελος τρίτος ἠκολούθησεν αὐτοῖς λέγων ἐν φωνῇ μεγάλῃ· εἴ τις προσκυνεῖ τὸ θηρίον καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα αὐτοῦ καὶ λαμβάνει χάραγμα ἐπὶ τοῦ μετώπου αὐτοῦ ἢ ἐπὶ τὴν χεῖρα αὐτοῦ, 10 καὶ αὐτὸς πίεται ἐκ τοῦ οἴνου τοῦ θυμοῦ τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ κεκερασμένου ἀκράτου ἐν τῷ ποτηρίῳ τῆς ὀργῆς αὐτοῦ καὶ βασανισθήσεται ἐν πυρὶ καὶ θείῳ ἐνώπιον ἀγγέλων ἁγίων καὶ ἐνώπιον τοῦ ἀρνίου.

                          Transliteration (Accordance):
                          Kai allos aggelos tritos ēkolouthēsen autois legōn en phōnȩ̄ megalȩ̄;
                          ei tis proskynei to thērion kai tēn eikona autou kai lambanei charagma epi tou metōpou autou ē epi tēn cheira autou, 10 kai autos pietai ek tou oinou tou thymou tou theou tou kekerasmenou akratou en tō̧ potēriō̧ tēs orgēs autou kai basanisthēsetai en pyri kai theiō̧ enōpion aggelōn hagiōn kai enōpion tou arniou.

                          Translation (NRSV):
                          Rev. 14:9 Then another angel, a third, followed them, crying with a loud voice, “Those who worship the beast and its image, and receive a mark on their foreheads or on their hands, 10 they will also drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured unmixed into the cup of his anger, and they will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

                          Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
                          τρίτος : third, in apposition to ἄγγελος.
                          χάραγμα : mark.
                          μέτωπον : forehead.
                          καί : conjunction introducing the apodosis.
                          πίεται : future of πίνω drink.
                          κεκερασμένου : perfect passive participle of κεράννυμι mix ; also add to.
                          ἄκρατος : undiluted.
                          ποτήριον : cup ; translate he shall drink the wine of God's anger added (i.e. poured) undiluted into the cup of his wrath.
                          βασανισθήσεται : future passive of βασανίζω torment.
                          ἐν : instrumental.
                          θεῖον : sulfer.
                          ἀρνίον : lamb.

                          Comment


                          • Revelation 14:11

                            Text: (NA27):
                            καὶ ὁ καπνὸς τοῦ βασανισμοῦ αὐτῶν εἰς αἰῶνας αἰώνων ἀναβαίνει, καὶ οὐκ ἔχουσιν ἀνάπαυσιν ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς οἱ προσκυνοῦντες τὸ θηρίον καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα αὐτοῦ καὶ εἴ τις λαμβάνει τὸ χάραγμα τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ.

                            Transliteration (Accordance):
                            kai ho kapnos tou basanismou autōn eis aiōnas aiōnōn anabainei, kai ouk echousin anapausin hēmeras kai nyktos hoi proskynountes to thērion kai tēn eikona autou kai ei tis lambanei to charagma tou onomatos autou.

                            Translation (NRSV):
                            And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image and for anyone who receives the mark of its name.

                            Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
                            καπνός : smoke.
                            βασανισμός : torment.
                            ἀνάπαυσις : respite.
                            ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτός : following a negative day or night, genitive of time "within which".
                            προσκυνοῦντες : participle of προσκυνέω to express in attitude or gesture one’s complete dependence on or submission to a high authority figure, (fall down and) worship, do obeisance to, prostrate oneself before, do reverence to.

                            Comment


                            • Revelation 14:12

                              Text: (NA27):
                              Ὧδε ἡ ὑπομονὴ τῶν ἁγίων ἐστίν, οἱ τηροῦντες τὰς ἐντολὰς τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὴν πίστιν Ἰησοῦ.

                              Transliteration (Accordance):
                              Ὧδε ἡ ὑπομονὴ τῶν ἁγίων ἐστίν, οἱ τηροῦντες τὰς ἐντολὰς τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὴν πίστιν Ἰησοῦ.

                              Translation (NRSV):
                              Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.

                              Translation (TNIV):
                              This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

                              Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
                              τηροῦντες : participle of τηρέω nominative for genitive with reference to τῶν ἁγίων.
                              πίστις Ἰησοῦ : faith in Jesus.

                              Comment


                              • Revelation 14:13

                                Text: (NA27):
                                Καὶ ἤκουσα φωνῆς ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ λεγούσης· γράψον· μακάριοι οἱ νεκροὶ οἱ ἐν κυρίῳ ἀποθνῄσκοντες ἀπ᾿ ἄρτι. ναί, λέγει τὸ πνεῦμα, ἵνα ἀναπαήσονται ἐκ τῶν κόπων αὐτῶν, τὰ γὰρ ἔργα αὐτῶν ἀκολουθεῖ μετ᾿ αὐτῶν.

                                Transliteration (Accordance):
                                Kai ēkousa phōnēs ek tou ouranou legousēs; grapson; makarioi hoi nekroi hoi en kyriō̧ apothnȩ̄skontes ap’ arti. nai, legei to pneuma, hina anapaēsontai ek tōn kopōn autōn, ta gar erga autōn akolouthei met’ autōn.

                                Translation (NRSV):
                                And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who from now on die in the Lord.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them.”

                                Grammatical Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG, meanings in this context):
                                γράψον : aorist imperative of γράφω write.
                                μακάριος : blessed, happy.
                                ἀποθνῄσκοντες : present participle frequentive of ἀποθνῄσκω ; οἱ ... ἀποθνῄσκοντες who die.
                                ἀπ᾿ ἄρτι : from now on, henceforth.
                                ναί : yes.
                                ἵνα : imperatival, may they / let them rest ;
                                ἀναπαήσονται : future deponent of ἀναπαύω give rest ; middle take rest, rest.
                                κόπος : toil, labor.
                                ἀκολουθέω : verse 4, ἀκολουθέω μετά (τινος) go along with (one).

                                Comment

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