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Biblical Languages 301 Guidelines

This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

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For Obsidian

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  • For Obsidian

    Obsidian, have you seen this?

  • #2
    Wow! Great Article by Gentry!
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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    • #3
      I think it's weak, because Paul would not have referred to the temple that Jesus called "desolate" as though it were truly a "temple of God." Paul elsewhere stated that Christians are the temple of God.

      1 Corinthians 3:16-17
      Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


      Also, Nero died well before any "coming" of Jesus. And there wasn't anything real noteworthy about his death, either. It was just a suicide. It didn't have anything to do with Christianity.

      I think the 666 in Revelation probably refers to the word "Roman," which adds up to 666 both in Hebrew and Greek. A beast in scripture generally refers to a kingdom, not an individual.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
        I think the 666 in Revelation probably refers to the word "Roman," which adds up to 666 both in Hebrew and Greek. A beast in scripture generally refers to a kingdom, not an individual.
        What word for 'Roman' are you using in Hebrew? What numerologic system are you using in Greek. I suspect your source on Greek numerology is manipulating things, which is easy to do once you go down the road of gematria and numerology.

        Ῥωμαῖος
        Ῥ = 100
        ω = 800
        μ = 40
        α = 1
        ῖ = 10
        ο = 70
        ς = 200
        Total = 1221

        If you leave out the more ancient Greek letters/numbers, and just use those letters that were in common use in the time that the book of Revelation was written, you could artificially come up with this:

        Ῥ = 80
        ω = 600
        μ = 30
        α = 1
        ῖ = 9
        ο = 60
        ς = 90
        Total = 890
        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον
        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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        • #5
          The one I heard was "Lateinos"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
            The one I heard was "Lateinos"
            OK, this seems to be the source: http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/666.htm

            Have fun!
            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον
            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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            • #7
              It's in lots of places, actually.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerol...Church_Fathers

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                For Lateinos, yes, but it does not speak the Hebew gematria for this.

                Here is the relevant section of Irenaeus: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.vii.xxxi.html
                Last edited by robrecht; 12-10-2014, 10:52 PM.
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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