Announcement

Collapse

Biblical Languages 301 Guidelines

This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Jesus said He was the Good Shepherd

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jesus said He was the Good Shepherd

    John 10: 11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."

    Someone said referring to this verse: "The phrase occurs in the periscope of John 10:1-21 and there are various interpretations for this passage and its imagery. It has been suggested that it is a later interpolation, along with chapter 6:15-17 and most of chapter 11. Other interpretations see it as the Johannine author’s adaptation of Matthew chapters 9&10. It can also be seen as continuing the shepherd tradition found in various books of the Septuagint [Zechariah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel]"

    Is that true?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    John 10: 11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."

    Someone said referring to this verse: "The phrase occurs in the periscope of John 10:1-21 and there are various interpretations for this passage and its imagery. It has been suggested that it is a later interpolation, along with chapter 6:15-17 and most of chapter 11. Other interpretations see it as the Johannine author’s adaptation of Matthew chapters 9&10. It can also be seen as continuing the shepherd tradition found in various books of the Septuagint [Zechariah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel]"

    Is that true?

    Thanks.
    N.B. It's a pericope not a periscope! You find the latter on submarines.

    The issue is not about whether or not anything is "true" it is about textual criticism and academic interpretation of an ancient text.
    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      N.B. It's a pericope not a periscope! You find the latter on submarines.

      The issue is not about whether or not anything is "true" it is about textual criticism and academic interpretation of an ancient text.
      Are you a Biblical Languages expert?

      Comment


      • #4
        I believe Jesus really said this, and meant that we are the sheep, and he is our shepherd. I'm surprised your source didn't mention Psalm 23! The Lord is my Shepherd. It seems this source is making a mess of what should be plain Scripture.

        Blessings,
        Lee
        "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          N.B. It's a pericope not a periscope! You find the latter on submarines....
          A good friend of mine, in defending his dissertation, kept referring to 'several pericopes" in the course of his oral, but he kept pronouncing it, as you indicated, rhyming with periscope.
          When he was all finished, the guy in charge of the orals team congratulated him on what a superb job he did, then got that funny look on his face, and said, "Except - it's not a pericope (wrong pronunciation) but a pericope (correct pronunciation)
          My friend was duly embarrassed and humiliated.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            Here are some Biblical experts' readings of the passage:

            Source: Expositor's Bible Commentary

            To the disciples the figure would have been specially apt since sheep herding was one of the major occupations in Palestine. It involved both protective concern and a sacrificial attitude.

            © Copyright Original Source



            Source: New American Commentary

            The word kalos (“good”) here is used to describe the role of Jesus in the context of self-giving ...
            The contrast is between Jesus and the employed watchers of the sheep, or hired hands (10:12), those who take care of the sheep merely in return for monetary compensation (10:13).

            © Copyright Original Source



            Source: Pillar NT Commentary

            Here, however, Jesus is not contrasting himself with temporal types, successful or otherwise, but with hired hands who have no real attachment to the sheep. Over against their deep self-interest, he is the noble shepherd.

            © Copyright Original Source



            Clearly, they are taking this statement as a real statement of Jesus.

            Blessings,
            Lee
            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
              N.B. It's a pericope not a periscope! You find the latter on submarines.

              The issue is not about whether or not anything is "true" it is about textual criticism and academic interpretation of an ancient text.
              Did I not quote you accurately?

              You said:

              Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
              Keep in mind that Jesus called Himself the GOOD Shepherd.

              The phrase occurs in the periscope of John 10:1-21 and there are various interpretations for this passage and its imagery. It has been suggested that it is a later interpolation, along with chapter 6:15-17 and most of chapter 11. Other interpretations see it as the Johannine author’s adaptation of Matthew chapters 9&10. It can also be seen as continuing the shepherd tradition found in various books of the Septuagint [Zechariah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel]

              LOL

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                Did I not quote you accurately?

                You said:

                Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
                Keep in mind that Jesus called Himself the GOOD Shepherd.

                The phrase occurs in the periscope of John 10:1-21 and there are various interpretations for this passage and its imagery. It has been suggested that it is a later interpolation, along with chapter 6:15-17 and most of chapter 11. Other interpretations see it as the Johannine author’s adaptation of Matthew chapters 9&10. It can also be seen as continuing the shepherd tradition found in various books of the Septuagint [Zechariah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel]

                LOL
                The issue is with PERISCOPE (bolded above) - that should be pericope --- pronounced PurRICK-o-pee

                an extract from a text, especially a passage from the Bible.
                "a book of pericopes"
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                  Did I not quote you accurately?

                  You said:

                  Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
                  Keep in mind that Jesus called Himself the GOOD Shepherd.

                  The phrase occurs in the periscope of John 10:1-21 and there are various interpretations for this passage and its imagery. It has been suggested that it is a later interpolation, along with chapter 6:15-17 and most of chapter 11. Other interpretations see it as the Johannine author’s adaptation of Matthew chapters 9&10. It can also be seen as continuing the shepherd tradition found in various books of the Septuagint [Zechariah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel]

                  LOL
                  You did and it's wretched auto-spelling on my tablet, and so I apologise. It does not know what a pericope is.

                  I briefly outlined some of the theories put forward by a brief selection of academics.
                  "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                    Are you a Biblical Languages expert?
                    Why do you ask?
                    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      Why do you ask?
                      Because this is the Biblical Language Board and you are already expressing your views on another thread.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        The issue is with PERISCOPE (bolded above) - that should be pericope --- pronounced PurRICK-o-pee

                        an extract from a text, especially a passage from the Bible.
                        "a book of pericopes"
                        Sorry to confuse you, CP, but it was Hypatia_Alexandria who made the error; I just copied what she wrote.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                          Sorry to confuse you, CP, but it was Hypatia_Alexandria who made the error; I just copied what she wrote.
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                            Because this is the Biblical Language Board and you are already expressing your views on another thread.
                            You have copied what I wrote [with its auto-spell typo] on to this board. Incidentally, we are all prone to typos - to wit your own thread entitled "Crucifixtion" We are also prone to confuse names, as you did when you assumed that John Ashton whose work I cited was the John F Ashton who writes for AiG. To err is human...

                            Given that you have quoted me I therefore feel I have a "right to reply".

                            By the way, how fluent are you in Koine Greek?
                            Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 06-15-2020, 09:38 AM. Reason: edit
                            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              You have copied what I wrote [with its auto-spell typo] on to this board. Incidentally, we are all prone to typos - to wit your own thread entitled "Crucifixtion" We are also prone to confuse names, as you did when you assumed that John Ashton whose work I cited was the John F Ashton who writes for AiG. To err is human...

                              Given that you have quoted me I therefore feel I have a "right to reply".

                              By the way, how fluent are you in Koine Greek?
                              I rely on someone who teaches Greek.

                              I also rely on Daniel B. Wallace.

                              Comment

                              widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                              Working...
                              X