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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

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John 20:28, My Lord and My God

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  • Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
    It is precisely because God could not die for our sins that Jesus is a savior in a different sense than God is. Also, even if we grant (for the sake of argument) that he was a savior "in the same sense" that God is, it would then be that there are two Saviors (albeit in the same sense) , not one Savior.

    I don't think this is a good argument, nor even a logical and consistent one.
    No there is one Savior because the Son is God.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      No there is one Savior because the Son is God.
      Well this is illogical. Your reasoning demands two Gods. But the bible says there is only one God. That is another reason why Jesus cannot be a Saviour exactly like the Father is Saviour.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
        Well this is illogical. Your reasoning demands two Gods. But the bible says there is only one God. That is another reason why Jesus cannot be a Saviour exactly like the Father is Saviour.
        The Son is fully God. The Father is fully God. The Holy Spirit is fully God.

        There is only one God. Who is revealed in three distinct persons. Not three Gods.

        That is what you get when you read the bible and accept what it says instead of trying to wiggle out from what it says.

        When I first became a Christian I was doubtful of the Trinity, so I was determined to study it, and read the bible and accept what the bible said. It says that there is only one God and no other. One creator/savior/etc. Then it shows the Father is God and the Creator and so it Jesus (The Son) and so is the Holy Spirit. And we can see that Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit (he prays to the Father and promises to send the Holy Spirit) so if all that is true, then the only conclusion is the Trinity.

        That you don't accept it is obvious. I can only urge you to re-read the bible with an open mind.

        At this point we just seem to be going in circles.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          The Son is fully God. The Father is fully God. The Holy Spirit is fully God.

          There is only one God. Who is revealed in three distinct persons. Not three Gods.

          That is what you get when you read the bible and accept what it says instead of trying to wiggle out from what it says.

          When I first became a Christian I was doubtful of the Trinity, so I was determined to study it, and read the bible and accept what the bible said. It says that there is only one God and no other. One creator/savior/etc. Then it shows the Father is God and the Creator and so it Jesus (The Son) and so is the Holy Spirit. And we can see that Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit (he prays to the Father and promises to send the Holy Spirit) so if all that is true, then the only conclusion is the Trinity.

          That you don't accept it is obvious. I can only urge you to re-read the bible with an open mind.

          At this point we just seem to be going in circles.
          Claiming "The Son is fully God" and "The Holy Spirit is fully God" is not true because "NO ONE KNOWS that day and that hour not even the angels in heaven nor the Son BUT ONLY THE FATHER" according to Jesus in Matthew 24:36.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
            Claiming "The Son is fully God" and "The Holy Spirit is fully God" is not true because "NO ONE KNOWS that day and that hour not even the angels in heaven nor the Son BUT ONLY THE FATHER" according to Jesus in Matthew 24:36.
            Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:5-8).

            Jesus self-limited himself in order to be human. Part of that was limiting his knowledge in certain areas such as his second coming.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:5-8).

              Jesus self-limited himself in order to be human. Part of that was limiting his knowledge in certain areas such as his second coming.
              Claiming that "Jesus self-limited himself in order to be human" is not true because Jesus made it clear that "NO ONE KNOWS" "BUT ONLY THE FATHER".

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                Claiming that "Jesus self-limited himself in order to be human" is not true because Jesus made it clear that "NO ONE KNOWS" "BUT ONLY THE FATHER".
                So your response is just to ignore scripture and go "nuh-uh!"


                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  So your response is just to ignore scripture and go "nuh-uh!"

                  ignore Sparko

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
                    ignore Sparko
                    you can't.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      you can't.
                      Same Hakeem didn't ignore scripture.

                      Sparko does by forcing on scripture his trintity-doctrine

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        So your response is just to ignore scripture and go "nuh-uh!"

                        I have been quoting scriptures over and over.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                          I have been quoting scriptures over and over.
                          And when I quoted scripture to you, you claimed it wasn't true and repeated yourself.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            And when I quoted scripture to you, you claimed it wasn't true and repeated yourself.
                            You claim the Holy Spirit but refuted by Jesus in Mathhew 24:36 that no one knows that hour and that day "BUT ONLY THE FATHER". Had the Holy Spirit been God the Holy Spirit must have known the hour but he did not because it is "ONLY THE FATHER" in Matthew 24:36.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                              You claim the Holy Spirit but refuted by Jesus in Mathhew 24:36 that no one knows that hour and that day "BUT ONLY THE FATHER". Had the Holy Spirit been God the Holy Spirit must have known the hour but he did not because it is "ONLY THE FATHER" in Matthew 24:36.
                              You are hard of hearing. That Jesus explained, ". . . the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. " (Acts 1:7) Does not change the fact that Jesus was understood to be both Lord (a man) and God (with the Father). 1 Corinthians 8:6. 1 Timothy 2:5. And that Jesus who was sent by the Father (John 17:3) as such is our sole access to God (John 14:6).
                              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                                You are hard of hearing. That Jesus explained, ". . . the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. " (Acts 1:7) Does not change the fact that Jesus was understood to be both Lord (a man) and God (with the Father). 1 Corinthians 8:6. 1 Timothy 2:5. And that Jesus who was sent by the Father (John 17:3) as such is our sole access to God (John 14:6).
                                1Corinthinas 8:6,
                                ἀλλ' ἡμῖν εἷς θεὸς ὁ πατήρ, ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς αὐτόν,] καὶ εἷς κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα καὶ ἡμεῖς δι' αὐτοῦ
                                yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.


                                1 Timothy 2:5,
                                εἷς γὰρ θεός, εἷς καὶ μεσίτης θεοῦ καὶ ἀνθρώπων, ἄνθρωπος Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς,
                                For one God, and one one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

                                John 17:3,
                                αὕτη δέ ἐστιν ἡ αἰώνιος ζωή, ἵνα γινώσκωσιν σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν καὶ ὃν ἀπέστειλας Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν
                                and this is the eternal life, that they know you the only true God and the one whom you have sent Jesus Christ

                                Comment

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