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Paul and the Role of Women

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  • Paul and the Role of Women

    There is something odd about the piece at 1 Cor 14: 34-36 - the slap down of verse 36 seems entirely out of place, so I ran the section through a machine translation exercise.


    Verse 34: ... Well - wouldn't that rot your socks?

    The Byzantine majority (blue cell) has either an unidentified "he" or "she" who hasn't permitted women to speak, or that women have not been permitted to speak . The UBS5 (pink cell) has either an unidentified someone not permitting women to speak or that women are not being given permission to speak. On that score, the difference between the Byzantine Majority and the UBS5 is a mere technicality. What isn't a technicality comes with "women" - if the verbs are passive, the word, women, must be the subject/nominative: it isn't, it's dative, so "women are not permitted to speak" would not be a valid translation.

    With that, the middle voice remains - and the actor is one person, but not Paul: it is not "I do not permit" but "he/she/it does not permit." Paul stipulates a third person (he, she, it) as the actor, not himself, and with that, the slap down delivered generally (the "you" is plural), "Was it from you that the word of God went forth? Or has it come to you only?" becomes understandable. The actor can't be "the law" because the law is an additional factor ("the law also says"), but no such law can be found anywhere in scripture anyway.

    Of course, there is argument in some circles that the verses are an interpolation - but their wording makes that claim kind of irrelevant.
    1 Cor 14:34
    αι 0 def art: nom fem pl ...
    2 γυναικες αι noun: nom fem pl ‡ women (subj)
    1 υμων prsnl prnn: gtv pl of You (pl), Your (pl)
    4 εν prpstn: dtv in, with, by, among, during
    5 ταις def art dtv fem pl to? the
    6 εκκλησιαις noun: ταις dtv fem pl ‡ congregations
    3 σιγατωσαν vb: prs act imprtv 3pp they   are to remain silent
    2 ου 1 negating adj no, not
    1 γαρ γαρ conjunct. forbecause
    3 επιτετραπται vb: pfct mid.psv indctv 3ps he.she.it   has permitted <?>
    3 επιτρεπεται vb: prs mid.psv indctv 3ps he.she.it   gets <?> permitted
    4 αυταις pers prnn: dtv fem pl them (indr obj)
    5 λαλειν prs actv infntv to speak
    6 αλλ conjAdverse but
    7 υποτασσεσθαι vb: prs mid.psv infntv to get <?> subordinated
    8 καθως advb just as
    9 και 1 cnjnctn also
    10 ο 1 def art: nom, masc, sgl the (+ subj)
    11 νομος o noun: nom masc sgl   law (subj)
    12 λεγει vb: prs actv indctv 3ps he.she.it   does say is saying
    Last edited by tabibito; 04-06-2023, 09:24 AM.
    1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
    Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

    "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

  • #2
    So: If the passive voice is permitted, "it is not permitted that women speak ... Was it from you that the word of God went forth? Or has it come to you only?"
    The claim, and the slap-down.
    Not permitted by whom?

    1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
    Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

    "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

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