Announcement

Collapse

Biblical Languages 301 Guidelines

This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

"Fool"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "Fool"

    I've heard that "fool" used to be mean someone who knew better but willingly blinded themselves on a matter, as opposed to someone who is just an idiot. Was putting forth a question to see if that is so. Also was wondering whether or not calling a brother "you fool," as in the Sermon on the Mount, could also be construed as calling your brother "idiot."

  • #2
    I read somewhere that calling your brother a fool was akin to calling a fellow Christian an unbeliever or atheist. Don't recall the exact verse in Psalm that states "the fool says in his heart, "There is no God"."
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
      I read somewhere that calling your brother a fool was akin to calling a fellow Christian an unbeliever or atheist. Don't recall the exact verse in Psalm that states "the fool says in his heart, "There is no God"."
      I've seen this asserted but I didn't find it very convincing.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        I've seen this asserted but I didn't find it very convincing.
        What do you think? I was just saying that that is what I heard/read.
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
          Don't recall the exact verse in Psalm that states "the fool says in his heart, "There is no God"."
          Psalm 14:1a The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” (ESV)
          Last edited by John Reece; 03-14-2014, 12:00 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by John Reece View Post
            Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” (ESV)
            Hebrew: אָמַר נָבָל בְּלִבּוֹ אֵין אֱלֹהִים

            LXX: ἄφρων ἐν καρδίᾳ αὐτοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν θεός

            ἄφρων = fool (without understanding)
            in Luke 11:40,
            You fools! Did not he who made the outside make the inside also? (meant are the Pharisees).

            Matthew 5:21 has another word for fool: μωρός

            anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.


            Matthew 5:13 might inform about the meaning:
            You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt becomes tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

            if the salt becomes tasteless = ἐὰν δὲ τὸ ἅλας μωρανθῇ

            from:
            μωραίνω
            1) to be foolish, to act foolishly 2a) to make foolish 2a1) to prove a person or a thing foolish 2b) to make flat and tasteless 2b1) of salt that has lost its strength and flavour

            so μωρός = a drab, dull person.

            Comment


            • #7
              Translation and comment on Psalm 14:1a by John Goldingay in Psalms Volume 1: Psalms 1-41 (Baker Commentary on the Old Testament Wisdom and Psalms, 2002):
              Psalm 14:1a : A scoundrel has said in his heart, "God is not here."

              The scoundrel is a nābāl, a fool (LXX) who has no insight (cf. verse 2), but also a villain, the opposite of the noble or honorable person (Isa. 32:5), the kind of person who rapes his half sister (2 Sam. 13:13) or scoffs at God (Ps. 74:18, 22). Here the psalm starts from the last kind of villainy. It is "a sustained comment on the nābāl." Sometimes such scoffing in the heart might contrast with outward words that profess commitment to Yhwh. Even an intellectual might not dare openly to deny God's reality―not a hesitation that survives into the modern world. But this psalm may have in mind a life and heart that match. The scoffing is not a superficial discounting of God. It takes place not merely on the lips but in the heart: it deeply characterize the person. Either way, saying "God is not here" (English versions: "There is no God") is not merely a statement of theoretical atheist conviction but a declaration that God can be discounted from everyday life (...). It is the attitude explicitly expressed by the Rabshakeh to Hezekiah (2 Kings 18:29-30) and implicit in the action of Nebuchadnezzar (cf. Isa. 14:14). Thus Targum's paraphrase "said in his heart, 'There is no rule of God in the land/earth'" may express the point, even if it is designed reverentially to hold back from expressing the conviction "God is not [here]" even on a scoundrel's lips.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                What do you think? I was just saying that that is what I heard/read.
                I don't find it very convincing. This psalm does not seem to be addressing theoretical atheism, which I don't think was as common in ancient times as it is today, but rather a kind of moral atheism, whereby someone does not seem to believe that they will be judged or punished for evil deeds. I could be wrong, but that's my initial impression.
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                Comment


                • #9
                  Great minds think alike, but, as usual, John has the reference to back it up!
                  βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                  ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                  אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                    I don't find it very convincing. This psalm does not seem to be addressing theoretical atheism, which I don't think was as common in ancient times as it is today, but rather a kind of moral atheism, whereby someone does not seem to believe that they will be judged or punished for evil deeds. I could be wrong, but that's my initial impression.
                    Indeed! That does make sense. Especially since the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom(Proverbs). I would ask then to ingnore the ethiest part of my comment, then.
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Matthew 5:22

                      Via Accordance, from The Gospel of Matthew (NICNT: Eerdmans, 2007), by R. T. France:
                      Translation: 22 But I tell you that everyone who is angry with their brother or sister will be liable to judgment; whoever calls their brother or sister stupid will be liable to trial; and whoever calls them a fool will be liable to hell-fire.

                      Comment: (1) Murder (5:21–26)

                      Jesus’ radical interpretation of the sixth commandment (and of the death penalty for murder which is its OT corollary) is stated in the three sharply paradoxical statements of v. 22. The remainder of this paragraph consists of what appear to have been two originally independent sayings (vv. 23–24 and 25–26; note the change to second person singular) concerned with repairing broken relationships, which offer a positive counterpart to the negative verdicts of v. 22.

                      The principle of v. 22 is that the actual committing of murder is only the outward manifestation of an inward attitude which is itself culpable, whether or not it actually issues in the act of murder. Angry thoughts and contemptuous words (which equally derive from “the heart,” 12:34) deserve equal judgment; indeed the “hell-fire” with which the saying concludes goes far beyond the human death penalty which the OT law envisaged. Jesus in no way sets aside the simple correlation of the observable act of murder and its humanly imposed penalty our modern questions concerning the appropriateness of capital punishment for murder are not raised but adds a far-reaching new dimension by turning attention also to the motives and attitudes which underlie the act, and which are not susceptible to judicial process. No one can testify to the anger itself, only to its physical or verbal expression, and the everyday insults of “stupid” and “fool” do not provide the matter for court proceedings. But, in the words of 1 Sam 16:7, “The Lord looks on the heart,” and in his court its thoughts are no less culpable than the act itself. A similar view is attributed to R. Eliezer ben Hyrcanus (c. A.D. 100): “One who hates his neighbor is among those who shed blood.” (Der. Er. Rab. 57b [11:13]) Cf. the tannaitic principle in b. Bab. Meṣ. 58b, “Anyone who publicly shames a neighbor is as though he shed blood,” with the following comment of R. Hanina that such people will not escape from Gehenna. Cf. 1 John 3:15.76

                      ....

                      22 The “brother or sister” (adelphos) of vv. 22–24 is probably to be understood as a fellow-disciple rather than a literal family member; a similar concern with good relationships among fellow-disciples will be the theme of the fourth discourse in ch. 18, where the term adelphos will recur in 18:15, 21, 35; cf. 12:46–50 for the concept of Jesus’ “family” of disciples. It would, however, be pedantic to suggest that Jesus’ ruling applies only to relations with fellow-disciples and not to people in general; vv. 44–47 suggest otherwise.

                      It is possible to find an ascending scale of severity in the descriptions of the punishment in this verse, from an unspecified “judgment” to the more specific “trial” and then to the final extreme of “hell-fire.” Certainly the most striking and powerful image is kept to the last. But there is no such clear escalation in the offences cited. The first (anger) is in the mind and the second and third in speech, but the speech is cited not so much as a clearly actionable utterance but rather as an indication of attitude. The two words of abuse, “stupid” and “fool” (the latter used by Jesus himself in 23:17), are not readily distinguishable in either meaning or severity; both are everyday utterances, significant enough in a society which took seriously public honor and disgrace, but not the sort of exceptional abuse which might conceivably form the basis of litigation The deliberate paradox of Jesus’ pronouncement is thus that ordinary insults may betray an attitude of contempt which God takes extremely seriously. The effect of the saying is therefore to be found not in a careful correlation between each offence individually and the respective punishment assigned to it, but in the cumulative rhetorical force of a series of everyday scenes and the remarkable range of expressions used for their results; the totally unexpected conclusion in “hell-fire” comes as a shocking jolt to the complacency of the hearer, who might well have chuckled over the incongruous image of a person being tried for anger or for conventional insult, only to be pulled up short by the saying’s conclusion.

                      “Hell” (geënna) will be referred to again in 5:29–30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33 as the place of final destruction of the wicked; its use in this sense is well-attested in Jewish apocalyptic literature. It is not the same as Hades, the place of the dead, which is not usually understood as a place of punishment or destruction but rather of shadowy existence. The name geënna derives from the Valley of Hinnom (Hebrew gê hinnōm) outside Jerusalem which had once been the site of human sacrifice by fire to Molech, 2 Kgs 23:10; Jer 7:31. There is a later tradition that the city’s rubbish was dumped and burned in this valley, which if true would provide a vivid image of “the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (25:41) see on 25:46 for the nature of the “eternal punishment” envisaged. To invoke this awesome concept in relation to the use of an everyday abusive epithet is the sort of paradoxical exaggeration by which Jesus’ sayings often compel the reader’s attention; contrast 1QS 6:25–7:9, where abusive language and attitude are punished by a graded range of periods of exclusion from the assembly.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you for this post, John. I have only read snippets of France's Matthew commentary over time but I've seen enough to want to interlibrary loan it.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          Thank you for this post, John. I have only read snippets of France's Matthew commentary over time but I've seen enough to want to interlibrary loan it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Just Some Dude View Post
                            I've heard that "fool" used to be mean someone who knew better but willingly blinded themselves on a matter, as opposed to someone who is just an idiot.
                            And Jesus reportedly said:
                            μωρε (mōre': dull, stupid, blockhead at Matt. 5:22; 7:26; 23:17, 19; 25:2-3, 8)

                            αφροσυνη (aphrosu'nē, indicating that a person is senseless, thoughtless, or reckless at Mark 7:22)

                            αφρονες (aph'rones: senseless, ignorant, unlearned at Luke 11:40; 12:20)

                            ανοητοι (ano'ētoi: senseless, ignorant, unlearned at Luke 24:25)

                            Originally posted by Just Some Dude View Post
                            Also was wondering whether or not calling a brother "you fool," ..., could also be construed as calling your brother "idiot."
                            Yes (cp. ιδιwτης (idiōtēs) with αφρονες and ανοητοι, above, in your preferred lexica).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Pat Ferguson alias Heterodoxus?

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by DesertBerean, 11-02-2020, 02:57 PM
                              4 responses
                              38 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post DesertBerean  
                              Working...
                              X