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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

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John 13-17

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  • John Reece
    replied
    John 13:7

    Text: (NA27):
    ἀπεκρίθη Ἰησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· ὃ ἐγὼ ποιῶ σὺ οὐκ οἶδας ἄρτι, γνώσῃ δὲ μετὰ ταῦτα.

    Transliteration (Accordance):
    apekrithē Iēsous kai eipen autō̧; ho egō poiō sy ouk oidas arti, gnōsȩ̄ de meta tauta.

    Translation (TNIV):
    Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”

    Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG):
    ἀπεκρίθη : aorist deponent of ἀποκρίνομαι
    ποιῶ = ποιέω I am doing.
    οὐκ οἶδας : you do not grasp.
    ἄρτι : now.
    γνώσῃ : future 2nd singular of γινώσκω know.
    μετὰ ταῦτα : hereafter, later on

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  • John Reece
    replied
    John 13:6

    Text: (NA27):
    ἔρχεται οὖν πρὸς Σίμωνα Πέτρον· λέγει αὐτῷ· κύριε, σύ μου νίπτεις τοὺς πόδας;

    Transliteration (Accordance):
    erchetai oun pros Simōna Petron; legei autō̧; kyrie, sy mou nipteis tous podas?

    Translation (TNIV):
    He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”

    Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG):
    σύ : you, in position of emphasis.

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  • John Reece
    replied
    John 13:5

    Text: (NA27):
    εἶτα βάλλει ὕδωρ εἰς τὸν νιπτῆρα καὶ ἤρξατο νίπτειν τοὺς πόδας τῶν μαθητῶν καὶ ἐκμάσσειν τῷ λεντίῳ ᾧ ἦν διεζωσμένος.

    Transliteration (Accordance):
    eita ballei hydōr eis ton niptēra kai ērxato niptein tous podas tōn mathētōn kai ekmassein tō̧ lentiō̧ ō̧h ēn diezōsmenos.

    Translation (TNIV):
    After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.

    Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG):
    εἶτα : then.
    νιπτήρ (< νίπτω wash) -ῆρος ὁ : (wash) basin ; article because such would be standard equipment.
    ἤρξατο : aorist of ἄρχομαι begin.
    νίπτειν : infinitive of νίπτω wash.
    ἐκμάσσειν : infinitive of ἐκμάσσω wipe.
    διεζωσμένος : perfect passive participle of διαζώννυμι wrap around oneself.

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  • John Reece
    replied
    John 13:4

    Text: (NA27):
    ἐγείρεται ἐκ τοῦ δείπνου καὶ τίθησιν τὰ ἱμάτια καὶ λαβὼν λέντιον διέζωσεν ἑαυτόν·

    Transliteration (Accordance):
    egeiretai ek tou deipnou kai tithēsin ta himatia kai labōn lention diezōsen heauton;

    Translation (TNIV):
    so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist.

    Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG):
    ἐγείρεται : passive intransitive of ἐγείρω rise.
    τίθημι : take off, remove.
    ἱμάτιον : outer garment.
    λαβών : aorist participle of λαμβάνω take.
    λέντιον : towel.
    διέζωσεν : aorist of διαζώννυμι gird oneself, tie round oneself.

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  • John Reece
    replied
    John 13:3

    Text: (NA27):
    εἰδὼς ὅτι πάντα ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ πατὴρ εἰς τὰς χεῖρας καὶ ὅτι ἀπὸ θεοῦ ἐξῆλθεν καὶ πρὸς τὸν θεὸν ὑπάγει,

    Transliteration (Accordance):
    eidōs hoti panta edōken autō̧ ho patēr eis tas cheiras kai hoti apo theou exēlthen kai pros ton theon hypagei,

    Translation (TNIV):
    Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God;

    Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG):
    ἔδωκεν : aorist of δίδωμι give.
    εἰς τὰς χεῖρας : into his hands, i.e. charge/care.
    ἐξῆλθεν : of relative past, he had come out.
    ὑπάγω : sometimes go back.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Reece
    replied
    John 13:2

    Text: (NA27):
    καὶ δείπνου γινομένου, τοῦ διαβόλου ἤδη βεβληκότος εἰς τὴν καρδίαν ἵνα παραδοῖ αὐτὸν Ἰούδας Σίμωνος Ἰσκαριώτου,

    Transliteration (Accordance):
    kai deipnou ginomenou, tou diabolou ēdē beblēkotos eis tēn kardian hina paradoi auton Ioudas Simōnos Iskariōtou,

    Translation (TNIV):
    The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus.

    Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG):
    δεῖπνον : supper, dinner.
    γινομένου : participle of γίνομαι, genitive absolute during supper.
    διάβολος : (< διαβάλλω slander) ὁ διάβολος the accuser, the devil.
    ἤδη : already.
    βεβληκότος : perfect participle of βάλλω, genitive absolute the devil having already put it in the mind (καρδίαν heart 12:40).
    ἵνα for objective infinitive.
    παραδοῖ : variant of παραδῷ subjunctive of παραδίδωμι hand over, betray.

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  • John Reece
    replied
    John 13:1

    Text: (NA27):
    Πρὸ δὲ τῆς ἑορτῆς τοῦ πάσχα εἰδὼς ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι ἦλθεν αὐτοῦ ἡ ὥρα ἵνα μεταβῇ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου πρὸς τὸν πατέρα, ἀγαπήσας τοὺς ἰδίους τοὺς ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ εἰς τέλος ἠγάπησεν αὐτούς.

    Transliteration (Accordance):
    Pro de tēs heortēs tou pascha eidōs ho Iēsous hoti ēlthen autou hē hōra hina metabȩ̄ ek tou kosmou toutou pros ton patera, agapēsas tous idious tous en tō̧ kosmō̧ eis telos ēgapēsen autous.

    Translation (NRSV):
    Now before the festival of the Passover, Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart from this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

    Analysis (Zerwick/BDAG):
    ἑορτή : feast, festival.
    πάσχα (indeclinable) τό : passover.
    εἰδώς : participle (perfect) of οἶδα know.
    ἵνα : for τοῦ with infinitive for him to...
    μεταβῇ : aorist subjunction of μεταβαίνω move on, pass (from one place to another), μεταβῇ ἐκ (or other like word) leave...(and go...).
    ἀγαπήσας : aorist participle of ἀγαπάω love.
    ἴδιος : one's own ; οἱ ἴδιοι his own (sc. people).
    ἠγάπησεν : aorist of ἀγαπάω.
    τέλος : end, completion ; εἰς τέλος to the end ; to the utmost, to the full ; the idea being of "end" as well as "perfection".

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  • John Reece
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
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  • Cow Poke
    replied
    subscribing

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  • John Reece
    started a topic John 13-17

    John 13-17

    This is a non-debate reading and grammatical analysis thread.

    Please do not post any cabala in this thread.

    Abbreviations:
    BDAG: A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature Third Edition Revised and Edited by Frederick William Danker (University of Chicago Press, 2000).

    BG: Biblical Greek Illustrated by Examples, English Edition Adapted from the Fourth Latin Edition by Joseph Smith, S.J.. (Rome: Scripta Pontificii Instituti Biblici, 1963), by Maximilian Zerwick, S.J.

    NA27: Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament (27th edition), edited by Barbara and Kurt Aland, Johannes Karavidopoulos, Carlo M. Martini, and Bruce M. Metzger.

    Zerwick: An Analysis of the Greek New Testament, by Max Zerwick and Mary Grosvenor (Rome: Biblical Institute Press, 1981).
    Last edited by John Reece; 03-06-2014, 01:35 PM.
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