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  • #16
    It is a common practice for Eastern languages to honorifics. Sensei can mean teacher---but it is often understood as an honorific/title. So actually Nakamura Sensei would be more appropriate than Nakamura san....Doctors, researchers,...masters of a craft or art,....etc are all given the honorific "sensei"
    San---it may sound the same---but is written differently for 3, mountain, and Mr/s. The san used for mountain is also an honorific---since mountains are considered sacred places in Eastern culture. The chinese character (Kanji) for mountain can be pronounced as yama (mountain) or san.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

      は is "ha", except when it is the particle (marks topic), otherwise "wa" is わ. "From" usually comes before "to," but the opposite isn't wrong, just seldom used.
      I'm not sure why that isn't something I noticed regarding は. So it is "wa" when it is a word like "is", but for other stuff it is "ha". I'll try to remember that.

      I did the first lesson with regards to clothing today. I actually got perfect score on all 7 lessons of the first star. It mostly dealt with colors and types of clothing.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

        I'm not sure why that isn't something I noticed regarding は. So it is "wa" when it is a word like "is", but for other stuff it is "ha". I'll try to remember that.

        I did the first lesson with regards to clothing today. I actually got perfect score on all 7 lessons of the first star. It mostly dealt with colors and types of clothing.
        I've just started that one. Frightening how rusty my Japanese has become.
        Really strict literal equivalence, は is much like " ;I, you,she" or whatever pronoun is appropriate, as in:
        私は 。。。私は旅人です。(mine; it is tabibito) corrected for grammar, "I am tabibito."
        私は 。。。蝦です。 (mine; it is prawns) also corrected "I'll have the prawns."


        BTW - Rikaichamp is a must have add on for Japanese study.
        Last edited by tabibito; 06-19-2021, 09:52 AM.
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          I've just started that one. Frightening how rusty my Japanese has become.
          Really strict literal equivalence, は is much like " ;I, you,she" or whatever pronoun is appropriate, as in:
          私は 。。。私は旅人です。(mine; it is tabibito) corrected for grammar, "I am tabibito."
          私は 。。。蝦です。 (mine; it is prawns) also corrected "I'll have the prawns."


          BTW - Rikaichamp is a must have add on for Japanese study.
          Wait, you made it all of the way to the lesson on clothing in Duolingo already?

          I need to figure out how to more easily add Japanese characters by typing. My brother mentioned an app that will translate English characters into Japanese by trying to match the syllables to the appropriate character.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

            Wait, you made it all of the way to the lesson on clothing in Duolingo already?

            I need to figure out how to more easily add Japanese characters by typing. My brother mentioned an app that will translate English characters into Japanese by trying to match the syllables to the appropriate character.
            Well, I already know hiragana, katakana, so I skipped those lessons.
            If you're using windows, you can download and install Japanese language without charge.
            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by tabibito View Post

              Well, I already know hiragana, katakana, so I skipped those lessons.
              If you're using windows, you can download and install Japanese language without charge.
              Ah, I guess you used the "lingots" to skip lessons or something?

              I have Windows 10, but couldn't figure out how to download the Japanese keyboard. Even went to the built in Windows store app, but couldn't find it.

              Comment


              • #22
                Bottom left corner/click on your start button/ click settings (the cog shaped icon)/scroll down to time and language/ click/ click language/ scroll down to add a language/ click on the + sign/ type "Japanese" into the "choose a language to instal" pane/
                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                  Bottom left corner/click on your start button/ click settings (the cog shaped icon)/scroll down to time and language/ click/ click language/ scroll down to add a language/ click on the + sign/ type "Japanese" into the "choose a language to instal" pane/
                  Thanks!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Alright, I seem to have gotten this up and running with the Japanese keyboard. どもありがと tabibito.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Cerebrum123
                      どういたしまして。
                      または
                      よろこんで。

                      I see that Duolingo hosts a zoom Bible study in Japanese for advanced learners. There's some incentive in that.
                      Last edited by tabibito; 06-22-2021, 11:03 AM.
                      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                      .
                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                      Scripture before Tradition:
                      but that won't prevent others from
                      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                      of the right to call yourself Christian.

                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                        I've always wanted to learn Japanese, so recently I started using Duolingo. So far I'm over 20 lessons in, and am put in something called the "Pearl League", apparently I get enough points each week or so to get promoted to a higher tier.
                        Now I haven't really tried out the Japanese court on Duolingo so I can't personally assess its quality, but based on my experience with Duolingo in other languages... it can give you some information, but if you're serious about learning a language rather than just dabbling a bit, you'll want something else. Even if you want to do it self-study rather than take any kind of class, you're better off getting a book on the subject. Which costs some money, obviously, but you get what you pay for.

                        When I took Japanese in college (I've forgotten most of it due to not really practicing it), the textbook we had was "Genki: An Integrated Course in Elementary Japanese" (it comes in two volumes) which was decent enough and I'd recommend it, though I don't know how much has changed in successive editions. One thing that is a little to overlook in that, especially if you don't read the introductory part, is that towards the back of the book it does have a bunch of information on Kanji that corresponds to each chapter (starting with chapter 3, but as I noted it's put in its own section towards the back of the book rather than with each individual chapter, presumably for convenience but it might have been nice to be more clear on that). This includes how to write them, their meaning, and various pronunciations. So if you get the book, be sure to do those along with the main chapter portion.

                        Then with the grammar my problem is that in many sentences it is very similar to English, but in others it is backwards or even scrambled compared to the English version. One example where it is more intuitive "Nakamura san wa sensei desu" means "Mr Nakamura is a teacher"*, Then in "densha ni nori ma su" it means "I will ride the train", even though train "densha" is before "nori".
                        English is a Subject Verb Object language. That is, sentence structure has you give the subject, then the verb, then the object, e.g. "I eat pizza". The I is the subject (what is doing the action), eat is the verb (the action), and pizza is the object (what the action is being done to).

                        Japanese, on the other hand, is a Subject Object Verb language (of which there are many; there are actually more of those than there are Subject Verb Object languages!). Indeed, this applies even in the "more intuitive" example you cited, as the verb--"desu", which means "is"--comes at the end of the sentence.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Duolingo uses a modified immersion style teaching technique. It has the advantage of providing opportunity to hear flowing speech as it is actually used, and at a high standard. The process is very effective in getting a student to intermediate conversation level quickly.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                            Now I haven't really tried out the Japanese court on Duolingo so I can't personally assess its quality, but based on my experience with Duolingo in other languages... it can give you some information, but if you're serious about learning a language rather than just dabbling a bit, you'll want something else. Even if you want to do it self-study rather than take any kind of class, you're better off getting a book on the subject. Which costs some money, obviously, but you get what you pay for.

                            When I took Japanese in college (I've forgotten most of it due to not really practicing it), the textbook we had was "Genki: An Integrated Course in Elementary Japanese" (it comes in two volumes) which was decent enough and I'd recommend it, though I don't know how much has changed in successive editions. One thing that is a little to overlook in that, especially if you don't read the introductory part, is that towards the back of the book it does have a bunch of information on Kanji that corresponds to each chapter (starting with chapter 3, but as I noted it's put in its own section towards the back of the book rather than with each individual chapter, presumably for convenience but it might have been nice to be more clear on that). This includes how to write them, their meaning, and various pronunciations. So if you get the book, be sure to do those along with the main chapter portion.
                            If I thought I actually had a chance of visiting Japan I would probably get something more in depth. Right now I'm trying to learn the basics to help out with understanding various video games an anime a bit better.

                            I don't doubt there are better options out there, but I'm on a budget when it comes to a lot of things, and even within that budget I am cheap most of the time. I have some other software I can use to learn Japanese, but it takes a lot more time to do one lesson on there than it does 10 on Duolingo. Although now that I have reached the point I am at on Duolingo I can probably do the lessons more quickly in Learn Japanese to Survive. It's basically taking the gamification approach even further than Duolingo by making the learning part of a Japanese RPG game.

                            English is a Subject Verb Object language. That is, sentence structure has you give the subject, then the verb, then the object, e.g. "I eat pizza". The I is the subject (what is doing the action), eat is the verb (the action), and pizza is the object (what the action is being done to).

                            Japanese, on the other hand, is a Subject Object Verb language (of which there are many; there are actually more of those than there are Subject Verb Object languages!). Indeed, this applies even in the "more intuitive" example you cited, as the verb--"desu", which means "is"--comes at the end of the sentence.
                            Yes, that is true that です means "is". It is also at the end of the sentence in the example I gave. It is still more intuitive to a native English speaker like myself unlike the latter example. I thought it would be obvious that I was speaking from my perspective about what was more intuitive.

                            I've always wanted to visit Japan, but short of a miracle that likely won't ever happen. My medical issues limit what I can do, and travel is one of the things that is very rough on me.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              As for me, I'm working on adapting the approach for in-class presentation.
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                                If I thought I actually had a chance of visiting Japan I would probably get something more in depth. Right now I'm trying to learn the basics to help out with understanding various video games an anime a bit better.

                                I don't doubt there are better options out there, but I'm on a budget when it comes to a lot of things, and even within that budget I am cheap most of the time.
                                Well, the older textbooks are often cheaper, but if paying any price is too much I would recommend checking out your library's catalog. They may have it (the book I suggested is at my library) and you can of course get them for free there.

                                Comment

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