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Question about copying legally purchased DVD's, Copyright, and Sin

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  • Question about copying legally purchased DVD's, Copyright, and Sin

    Hey guys,

    I have a question. Recently, it's come to my attention that it may or may not be illegal (in the United States) to make a copy of a DVD you bought and paid for . Now, obviously piracy is theft and therefore a sin. But I'm hearing that making a copy of a DVD for personal use (backups, adding to iPod/iPad, etc) is actually copyright infringement. This bothers me, as I've made copies of several DVD's that I legally bought, just for ease of watching on a different device. I assumed that was fine, considering I own the DVD's

    I've looked around online, but see conflicting information and not much in the way of official statements or legal documentation. Very confusing...

    Yes, I submit to Romans 13. If something is illegal or not, I need to know. Is this something "technical," like outdated law that needs to be updated for modern circumstances, settled law, or is it still being debated? And even though I paid for the stuff I copied for personal use, is it still theft to make those copies?

    Am I sinning by making copies of my purchased DVD's?

  • #2
    Copying for personal use is perfectly legal in MOST instances. Your state mileage may vary but usually the courts have held that the owner has certain rights of usage. Licensed materials are different and it depends on the license as to what you may or may not do - but even most software licenses permit some personal copying - but to be certain you have to actually read that contract you see when you install the thing.

    What is NEVER legal is making copies that are sold or otherwise used to make a profit. You have no right to profit from someone else's intellectual property.

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, there is conflict. Stephan Kinsella convinced Hans-Hermann Hoppe that there should be no such thing as intellectual property. No patent or no copyright enforced by the government. However a thing may be licensed so that the licensee has limited rights or none to duplicate or copy what is in the thing. Sorry to add to the confusion, but it is what it is.
      The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

      [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        Copying for personal use is perfectly legal in MOST instances. Your state mileage may vary but usually the courts have held that the owner has certain rights of usage. Licensed materials are different and it depends on the license as to what you may or may not do - but even most software licenses permit some personal copying - but to be certain you have to actually read that contract you see when you install the thing.

        What is NEVER legal is making copies that are sold or otherwise used to make a profit. You have no right to profit from someone else's intellectual property.
        The problem is that the yes make a copy for fair use, but to do so you'll have to circumvent the copy protection and that's illegal (note: I disagree very very very strongly with copy protection and DRM, the only person it affects is the legitimate paying user)
        "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
        -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

        Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
        1 Corinthians 16:13

        "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
        -Ben Witherington III

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Raphael View Post
          The problem is that the yes make a copy for fair use, but to do so you'll have to circumvent the copy protection and that's illegal (note: I disagree very very very strongly with copy protection and DRM, the only person it affects is the legitimate paying user)
          True, the circumventing is an issue - I've so rarely encountered it that I didn't think about it. And I agree with you that the protections are objectionable.

          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Raphael View Post
            The problem is that the yes make a copy for fair use, but to do so you'll have to circumvent the copy protection and that's illegal (note: I disagree very very very strongly with copy protection and DRM, the only person it affects is the legitimate paying user)
            Some DRM is pretty good. Diablo 3 has yet to be cracked since some of the code is server side and whatever Dragon Age Inquisition uses takes forever (not even sure that's cracked yet). So that's not entirely true, though not usually relevant to movies.
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Raphael View Post
              The problem is that the yes make a copy for fair use, but to do so you'll have to circumvent the copy protection and that's illegal (note: I disagree very very very strongly with copy protection and DRM, the only person it affects is the legitimate paying user)
              Not really, just use VLC ( open-source + legal software) to copy the DVD...
              "It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
              -Unknown

              "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis


              I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              I support the :
              sigpic

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              • #8
                So, the important question is, given the DRM-issue, would it actually be a sin to copy a legally-purchased DVD with software like Handbrake. For instance, I previously ripped my copy of a Christian documentary onto my iPod, iPad, and second laptop. Would circumventing DRM go against Romans 13, or is it a "spirit of the law vs the letter of the law thing", considering I own the physical disc?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PresbuterOS View Post
                  So, the important question is, given the DRM-issue, would it actually be a sin to copy a legally-purchased DVD with software like Handbrake. For instance, I previously ripped my copy of a Christian documentary onto my iPod, iPad, and second laptop. Would circumventing DRM go against Romans 13, or is it a "spirit of the law vs the letter of the law thing", considering I own the physical disc?
                  Since there is no violation of law I don't see any rebellion against God so I'd say 'no' to the sin question.

                  Here the law is itself contradictory in places (the CR vs the DRM) it's more a matter of your interpretation - do you think you're violating either the secular law or God's in so doing? If not, I see no issue in this particular case. In a 'spirit of the law' sense I'd opt for the much more adjudicated and therefore better tested copyright over the DRM - and there is no legal issue with using property you possess legally for your personal use.

                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Irate Canadian View Post
                    Not really, just use VLC ( open-source + legal software) to copy the DVD...
                    Dude, you're not allowed to use common sense, the MPAA will get upset.

                    (yeah, I know that's what you do. the MPAA seem to think you should not be allowed to do that.....but then they are morons)
                    "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
                    -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

                    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                    1 Corinthians 16:13

                    "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                    -Ben Witherington III

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                      Dude, you're not allowed to use common sense, the MPAA will get upset.

                      (yeah, I know that's what you do. the MPAA seem to think you should not be allowed to do that.....but then they are morons)
                      I wish the conservative parties would take the time to understand the Internet and actually use common sense.
                      "It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
                      -Unknown

                      "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis


                      I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
                      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      I support the :
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PresbuterOS View Post
                        So, the important question is, given the DRM-issue, would it actually be a sin to copy a legally-purchased DVD with software like Handbrake. For instance, I previously ripped my copy of a Christian documentary onto my iPod, iPad, and second laptop. Would circumventing DRM go against Romans 13, or is it a "spirit of the law vs the letter of the law thing", considering I own the physical disc?
                        No, you still fall under fair use.
                        "It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
                        -Unknown

                        "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis


                        I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
                        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        I support the :
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PresbuterOS View Post
                          So, the important question is, given the DRM-issue, would it actually be a sin to copy a legally-purchased DVD with software like Handbrake. For instance, I previously ripped my copy of a Christian documentary onto my iPod, iPad, and second laptop. Would circumventing DRM go against Romans 13, or is it a "spirit of the law vs the letter of the law thing", considering I own the physical disc?
                          Ironically, the DRM stuff is likely what causes many of their issues to begin with. While I do understand that these companies need to make money, they are using an outdated system, that punishes lawful individuals, to start with.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                            Dude, you're not allowed to use common sense, the MPAA will get upset.

                            (yeah, I know that's what you do. the MPAA seem to think you should not be allowed to do that.....but then they are morons)
                            They would charge you every time you watch something; if they could.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              They would charge you every time you watch something; if they could.
                              If they could get away with it they would charge you each time you remembered your favourite scenes.
                              "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
                              -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

                              Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                              1 Corinthians 16:13

                              "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                              -Ben Witherington III

                              Comment

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