// Required code

Announcement

Collapse

Pro-Life Activism 301 Guidelines

This area is for pro-life activists to discuss issues related to abortion. It is NOT a debate area, and it is not OK for pro-choice activists to post here.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Praxis of Pro-Life Colloqium

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Praxis of Pro-Life Colloqium

    I'm enrolled in a 1-credit course this semester that will be examining pro-life activism in the area around my school. Tonight, we'll be traveling to the county Right to Life headquarters. If I have any thoughts worth sharing after this or any of the other class sessions, I'll post them here.
    Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

  • #2
    Subscribing, counselor!
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #3
      Tonight the class visited the HQ of the county Right to Life organization, which is conveniently located a stone's throw from the local clinic (I did not nor would I actually test this by throwing rocks, but the figure of speech nonetheless seems apt). It is worth noting that I was the only undergraduate male in the class: aside from the professor, a seminarian, and one other student who had to deal with an emergency, everyone in the 15-person class is female. The point I wish to draw from this is that the people in my generation (to say nothing of previous ones) who care the most deeply about these issues are not (stereotypes to the contrary) moralizing men who want to "control" women, but women whose opposition to abortion is founded on careful consideration of complex questions.

      The woman who greeted us has been involved in pro-life activism for some years now. She used to work in the area's network of crisis pregnancy centers, but is now the program director for the county Right to Life. She started by handing us a set of pamphlets and newsletters, one of which explained the situation of the local abortionist, who had apparently been exposed as engaging in what I have (rightly or wrongly) learned to take as being typical of abortionists: he neglected to report instances of very young teens procuring abortions, did not observe the state-mandated 18-hour waiting period, and took various pieces of paperwork as well as health regulations as suggestions rather than as important safeguards for the women whose health he is supposedly there to protect.

      She spent most of the presentation discussing the work of the CPC, citing the statistic that 95% of abortion-minded women who see an ultrasound change their minds. The center avoids proselytizing: if the women who come to them report being religious, they will ask them about it and see if they can't use it, but otherwise don't want the women to feel as though they or their actions are being judged (it tends to make actually getting through to them much more difficult). Their priority is helping women who are clearly in difficult economic circumstances, but she insisted that they don't discriminate against women who come to them for the free pregnancy test and ultrasound.

      The part of her discussion that intrigued, and ultimately troubled, me most was her discussion of adoption, which she observed is a rather tough sell for many poor women, especially those in the African-American community. Apparently it's a much easier sell when the women realize that the adoption system is nothing like the foster care system with which so many of them are familiar, but there is still some resistance to the idea: they would rather take care of their own children than entrust them to some more well-off couple someplace else, no matter how desperate that second couple is to have a child or how long and difficult the adoption process is on the hopeful parents.

      I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about the idea of adoption. I have written elsewhere that adoption needs to be seen as providing a loving home to a child in need rather than as an alternative means of satisfying one's own "need" for children; by this I cannot be sure how many couples applying for adoption I am accusing, but I shall insist that having enough love to share does not necessarily mean that God is calling you to share that love as a parent. Given that there is apparently only one baby for every 40 couples waiting to adopt, I should like to see if there is some other way to harness the resources (by which I do not mean to limit myself to the financial) of these 39 other couples to engage with the problems of poorer neighborhoods, to understand the neighborhoods and the individuals well enough to know how to make a difference and to help people lift themselves out of the cycles of poverty in which they are trapped.

      Given the tendency of certain cultural groups to want to raise their own children and the apparent abundance of resources in other groups, I'd like to suggest that various kinds of wealth redistribution may be more worthwhile than child redistribution. Maybe I'm a callous jerk with respect to the desires of infertile couples, but I'm an adolescent male: being insensitive is in my job description.

      Anyway, that's my reflection on session 1. I could write more, but I have an 8 AM class for which I ought to prepare, so I'll end it here for now and see if I can't find time to write more later.
      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
        Tonight the class visited the HQ of the county Right to Life organization, which is conveniently located a stone's throw from the local clinic (I did not nor would I actually test this by throwing rocks, but the figure of speech nonetheless seems apt). It is worth noting that I was the only undergraduate male in the class: aside from the professor, a seminarian, and one other student who had to deal with an emergency, everyone in the 15-person class is female.
        That answered a question I was going to ask. Someone I used to work with who was pro-abortion always claimed that the pro-choice movement was mostly made up of redneck men who had the philosophy of "If I plant my seed in her what right does she have to take it out."

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          How does adoption differ from the foster system?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
            How does adoption differ from the foster system?
            Foster is temporary custody while a permanent home is being sought, or during settlement of custody by a parent or whatever.

            My mom took in Foster Children for several years after all her own kids moved out.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Foster is temporary custody while a permanent home is being sought, or during settlement of custody by a parent or whatever.

              My mom took in Foster Children for several years after all her own kids moved out.
              Right. Adoption is typically done while the child is still an infant, the screening process is much more intense, and while foster parents receive some money from the state, the adoption process is long, difficult, and expensive for the would-be parents.
              Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                Right. Adoption is typically done while the child is still an infant, the screening process is much more intense, and while foster parents receive some money from the state, the adoption process is long, difficult, and expensive for the would-be parents.
                I'll never forget my Mom's first foster children --- Becky and Mario. We were advised "not to get attached" to them, but WOW, they were so durn cute and lovable. They were with us for nearly a year, and their parents finally reconciled, and got them back. I KNOW I should have been happy for the parents, and for Becky and Mario, but it really was hard to let them go.

                FORTUNATELY, the dad stopped by the house one day, asked for me and told me that Becky and Mario wanted me to come to Becky's birthday party. I visited their home a number of times, and became somewhat of an "uncle" to them.
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  The SAD thing is that a lot of children who are not "cute and cuddly" end up in "foster care" because there's nowhere else for them to go. SOME of the "foster parents" do it for the money. Perhaps not exclusively, but I know of several cases (through my Police work) where that became obvious. And some of these children end up in one foster home after another, not always with the best "home environments".
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                    The part of her discussion that intrigued, and ultimately troubled, me most was her discussion of adoption, which she observed is a rather tough sell for many poor women, especially those in the African-American community. Apparently it's a much easier sell when the women realize that the adoption system is nothing like the foster care system with which so many of them are familiar, but there is still some resistance to the idea: they would rather take care of their own children than entrust them to some more well-off couple someplace else, no matter how desperate that second couple is to have a child or how long and difficult the adoption process is on the hopeful parents.
                    OK, one of the issues here is that, in the adoption system, most (I'll check to see if that's statistically defensible) adoptions are "closed" adoptions. Meaning that the mother giving up the child will never know the adoptive parents. In the example I gave of our "foster brother and sister", we knew (through court records) who the actual parents were, but we were forbidden from contacting them in any way (unless THEY initiated the contact).

                    I have to wonder if there's a hybrid option... a system whereby a mother can give up a baby for adoption, but with "visiting rights" or some such.... some way of knowing that her baby is, in fact, being cared for. This could be viewed as a Trojan Horse, of course, because many adopting parents don't want their baby to know that they (the adoptive parents) are not the "REAL" parents. So, something like, in my case, I was considered "an uncle". When I was growing up, my Dad had a friend named Bill Bloodsworth, who we called "Uncle Bill". I was 18 years old before I ever knew Bill was NOT my real uncle, but that's what we called him because "Mr. Bloodsworth" was too formal, and children simply didn't call adults by first names.

                    So, I'm wondering, Spart... did they address at all, or is it part of your course, to discuss the adoption process, whereby it is so "final" for a mom to give up a baby?
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Interesting reflections, Σπαρτακος!
                      βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                      ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                      אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        OK, one of the issues here is that, in the adoption system, most (I'll check to see if that's statistically defensible) adoptions are "closed" adoptions. Meaning that the mother giving up the child will never know the adoptive parents. In the example I gave of our "foster brother and sister", we knew (through court records) who the actual parents were, but we were forbidden from contacting them in any way (unless THEY initiated the contact).

                        I have to wonder if there's a hybrid option... a system whereby a mother can give up a baby for adoption, but with "visiting rights" or some such.... some way of knowing that her baby is, in fact, being cared for. This could be viewed as a Trojan Horse, of course, because many adopting parents don't want their baby to know that they (the adoptive parents) are not the "REAL" parents. So, something like, in my case, I was considered "an uncle". When I was growing up, my Dad had a friend named Bill Bloodsworth, who we called "Uncle Bill". I was 18 years old before I ever knew Bill was NOT my real uncle, but that's what we called him because "Mr. Bloodsworth" was too formal, and children simply didn't call adults by first names.

                        So, I'm wondering, Spart... did they address at all, or is it part of your course, to discuss the adoption process, whereby it is so "final" for a mom to give up a baby?
                        Open adoptions do exist, but I'm not sure how prevalent they are. According to the syllabus, this was the only session in which adoption would be discussed. However, I could devote my research project and presentation for the class to the subject of adoption. I would not be at all averse to that.
                        Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                          Open adoptions do exist, but I'm not sure how prevalent they are. According to the syllabus, this was the only session in which adoption would be discussed. However, I could devote my research project and presentation for the class to the subject of adoption. I would not be at all averse to that.
                          That would be interesting!
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I was adopted by my grandparents and I grew up knowing who my biological parents were, but I never considered them my "real" parents. My real parents were the people who raised me. From my point of view, it seems silly that some parents are so scared to tell their children that they were adopted. I grew up knowing and I feel like it was better for me.

                            "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
                            "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
                            Katniss Everdeen


                            Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by thewriteranon View Post
                              I was adopted by my grandparents and I grew up knowing who my biological parents were, but I never considered them my "real" parents. My real parents were the people who raised me. From my point of view, it seems silly that some parents are so scared to tell their children that they were adopted. I grew up knowing and I feel like it was better for me.
                              That would be one aspect I'd be interested in hearing Spartacus expound upon... Do we tell adopted children they are adopted, and, if so, when?

                              ETA: And, I guess in this age of CSI and DNA awareness, it's much easier for somebody who was not told he was adopted to discover he was.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Littlejoe, 10-01-2020, 04:53 PM
                              5 responses
                              74 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Littlejoe  
                              Started by Christianbookworm, 02-13-2020, 09:52 PM
                              28 responses
                              4,375 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post thormas
                              by thormas
                               
                              Working...
                              X