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Let's Starve Granny!

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  • Let's Starve Granny!

    Originally posted by Life Site News
    No line in bioethics is ever fixed. Rather, the push to eradicate the boundaries that keep medical professionalism tied to Hippocratic values (sniffed at as “paternalism” by many in the field) continues unabated, with new boundary lines created, consolidated, and then moved again into ever-more extreme territory.
    Some call this, the “slippery slope.” Case in point: Suicide by starvation, known as VSED (voluntary stop eating and drinking). Not only do bioethicists say doctors should participate in this method of suicide by palliating the pain starvation and dehydration causes, but also DO IT FOR THE PATIENT if they stated they wanted to die by VSED in an advance directive and they become mentally incapacitated.

    http://www.lifenews.com/2014/06/30/euthanasia-activists-want-nursing-homes-to-starve-patients-to-death/]Source



    Actually, I think it's time we seriously gave consideration to euthanasia. Some humans are just not fit for this whole 'being a decent human' thing and the merciful thing would be to humanely put them out of their misery. I think it's fairly evident that people who can, with a straight face, propose starving Granny to death even when she's asking for food have crossed that threshold.

    It's time we began a humane project for dealing with these unfortunates - it should be fairly easy to get them together (put enough rubber chicken on a plate and call it something ridiculous and they'll trot right on in) and we can just lock them in and let nature take its course...





    Oh and double for the idiots that can't recognize the sarcasm!




    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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  • #2
    Quite honestly, as I get older and see so many people in their "twilight years" suffering from dementia and other debilitating conditions, I'm not so fundamentalist on this as I once was.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    • #3
      The answer isn't to kill the patient - it's to find more effective treatments, preventions and coping mechanisms. Burying the problem only leaves it to become someone else's turn later.

      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        The answer isn't to kill the patient
        Yeah, I'm well aware of that, and haven't even hinted at advocating such.

        - it's to find more effective treatments, preventions and coping mechanisms. Burying the problem only leaves it to become someone else's turn later.
        I'm helping my best friend deal with his wife of 44 years who doesn't even recognize him half the time, and my daughter's stories as a Hospice Nurse where she sees this first hand on a daily basis, and has actually had patients BEG her to "help them die".
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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        • #5
          My mom stopped calling me by name - honestly don't know if she knew who I was a lot of the time. She didn't know my sister at all at the end. Daddy had cancer (probably) back before pain management was even a term - he had some truly rough days.

          Suffering isn't a stranger to me. There are ways to fight it - and we should - but giving up isn't one of them. Life, even when it hurts, matters.

          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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          • #6
            If paying the medical bills to prolong the life of a terminal patient is actually financially crippling (and not just inconveniencing) the family, pulling the plug might prove to be the best option... but just "starving the freeloaders" is unconscionable.
            Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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            • #7
              There is also the issue of force-feeding somebody who is not eating on their own. One conservative bioethicist argued that in the recent case of Casey Kasem, it was acceptable to stop feeding him because it was medically inappropriate to do so by that point.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                If paying the medical bills to prolong the life of a terminal patient is actually financially crippling (and not just inconveniencing) the family, pulling the plug might prove to be the best option... but just "starving the freeloaders" is unconscionable.
                This is why you have insurance and make sure you get coverage for such things - killing Mom because the bills are high and the doctor - NOT God - thinks she'll die isn't okay.

                Also, this only affects spouses - adult children aren't liable for their parents bills unless they are stupid enough to sign for it.

                On a related note NEVER sign anything from a hospital not related to your own treatment without a lawyer looking it over first - yes, really.

                And, from painful personal experience, bankruptcy ain't fun but it isn't the end of the world, either.

                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  There is also the issue of force-feeding somebody who is not eating on their own. One conservative bioethicist argued that in the recent case of Casey Kasem, it was acceptable to stop feeding him because it was medically inappropriate to do so by that point.
                  A feeding tube is hardly the same as 'force feeding'. And food and water are human, biological necessities - not medical ones. It's also wrong to shove the incapacitated outside because somehow shelter is a 'medical necessity'. So too is changing the bed, bathing and all the other things we do because humans need them, not because a doctor thinks they do.

                  We don't let people deliberately starve ANIMALS because even a rat feels pain - how can it be ethical to starve a human being regardless of the level of observed (NOT actual) cognition?

                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    A feeding tube is hardly the same as 'force feeding'. And food and water are human, biological necessities - not medical ones. It's also wrong to shove the incapacitated outside because somehow shelter is a 'medical necessity'. So too is changing the bed, bathing and all the other things we do because humans need them, not because a doctor thinks they do.

                    We don't let people deliberately starve ANIMALS because even a rat feels pain - how can it be ethical to starve a human being regardless of the level of observed (NOT actual) cognition?
                    Yeah, why don't we just withhold air from them too. It's faster than starving to death. Just put a pillow on their face.

                    (I am not talking about not using artificial life support methods. I think that if someone is terminally ill they do have a right to refuse excessive artificial life support measures, like breathing apparatus, or heart/lung machines. But I think that as long as someone can breathe on their own, they should not be withheld basic life support, like nourishment.)

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                    • #11
                      Refusal, in any decent legal definition of the term, requires informed consent. Someone who's mental capabilities are impaired cannot give consent, informed or otherwise.

                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        Refusal, in any decent legal definition of the term, requires informed consent. Someone who's mental capabilities are impaired cannot give consent, informed or otherwise.
                        That's why everyone should have a living will.

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                        • #13
                          When a person is clearly dying and can no longer eat or drink its OK not to insert a feeding tube or give fluids but to provide comfort measures. However its not OK just to starve or refuse comfort to someone whose ill just to hasten death. I've seen this done as well and it was a very miserable existence for the woman whom treatment was not provided and nearly bordered on neglect because of her actual life span vs the family's idea of life.
                          At any rate, there is a line between extraordinary measures and cruelty. Sometimes it looks fuzzy. Was Mrs. Schiavo an extraordinary measure? It seems kind of gray sitting from a complete hospice picture but the attitude of the husband is what made it sour and wrong. I do however fear that the attitude of the culture is such that we begin to dictate who survives based on who we think is the strongest and the most normal (consider the popularity of abortion due to disability) I can see that the argument of killing the elderly and the weak isn't far from being legal
                          A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                          George Bernard Shaw

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            A feeding tube is hardly the same as 'force feeding'. And food and water are human, biological necessities - not medical ones. It's also wrong to shove the incapacitated outside because somehow shelter is a 'medical necessity'. So too is changing the bed, bathing and all the other things we do because humans need them, not because a doctor thinks they do.

                            We don't let people deliberately starve ANIMALS because even a rat feels pain - how can it be ethical to starve a human being regardless of the level of observed (NOT actual) cognition?
                            My understanding about this particular case was that the body was rejecting any food rather than digesting it so feeding was pointless.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              That's why everyone should have a living will.
                              Living wills are not a panacea. I'm leery of them because they seem to come with an assumption of 'no heroic measures'. I have doubts about any doctor on a 12 hour shift being awakened at 2 am making his best decisions - I definitely don't want him trying to read a legal document like a will or contract.

                              If you are going with such a document it needs to be on file with your attorney so that Doctor Bob can call Attorney Bubba the next morning when both are conscious and Attorney Bubba can explain exactly what you want. Boiler plate is a bad thing in this regard.

                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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