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States That Prohibit Abortion

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  • #16
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

    So Kansas voters chose to not love the most innocent and defenseless.

    That is ultimately what it boils down to, and why there will never likely be a full victory before the Lord returns. A nationwide law would probably not make it past a Dem. filibuster, and if it did, could just as easily be removed when power changes hands. A Pro-Life Amendment would be almost impossible to enact at all, since the Pro-Kill faction is so large and willfully resistant to persuasion.
    I was so disappointed in Kansas of all places. I am told though that college aged girls turnout was unprecedented.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

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    • #17
      Nine states have outlawed abortion. Four more have fetal heartbeat laws. Several more are in contention.

      Only four permit abortion at any stage.

      The rest are a hodge podge of growing levels of restriction with the most liberal ending at 24 weeks.

      Sure, we have a long way to go = but we're not nearly as far behind as we were. Bleeding Kansas will get another bite of the apple. We'll see how that plays out.
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

        I was so disappointed in Kansas of all places. I am told though that college aged girls turnout was unprecedented.
        I don't use Facebook much anymore but my news feed from people back home was an overwhelming stream of calls for pro-abortion votes. Even people I knew to be strong Christians when I knew them years ago. It made me sad.

        I really do think a big part of it was the belief that it would criminalize abortion to save the life of the mother, which was a false but common talking point that I saw people taking.
        Last edited by KingsGambit; 08-04-2022, 04:32 PM.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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        • #19
          Way too many people thought pro life laws would criminalize treatment for miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies sadly.
          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

            I don't use Facebook much anymore but my news feed from people back home was an overwhelming stream of calls for pro-abortion votes. Even people I knew to be strong Christians when I knew them years ago. It made me sad.

            I really do think a big part of it was the belief that it would criminalize abortion to save the life of the mother, which was a false but common talking point that I saw people taking.
            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Way too many people thought pro life laws would criminalize treatment for miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies sadly.
            Yeah, lots of people thought just the SCOTUS overturn had suddenly prohibited abortion nationwide.

            Now a lot think everyone opposing abortion wants no provision for the life of the mother, and probably actually wants her prosecuted.
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Federalist.

            Nationalist Christian.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

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            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

              I was so disappointed in Kansas of all places. I am told though that college aged girls turnout was unprecedented.
              Not just college age (that demographic alone isn't going to swing an election to that extent), but apparently 70% of new registrations were women:

              https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...ortion-ruling/

              It's sad to realize that pro-life policies just aren't likely to be a winning issue these days.

              Part of the problem is that most Republicans won't touch the topic with a ten foot pole. I guess nobody wants to risk being the next Todd Akin.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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              • #22
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                Not just college age (that demographic alone isn't going to swing an election to that extent), but apparently 70% of new registrations were women:

                https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...ortion-ruling/

                It's sad to realize that pro-life policies just aren't likely to be a winning issue these days.

                Part of the problem is that most Republicans won't touch the topic with a ten foot pole. I guess nobody wants to risk being the next Todd Akin.
                My understanding is that there was a lot of outright lying on the part of opponents that convinced people that the law was more restrictive than it was. Also, Kansas is not a bellwether - a lot of states have protected life and are actively changing laws.

                It's a long fight - but we just won a HUGE victory. Little too early to be this depressed.

                Edit: Kansas didn't liberalize its laws - while not great they still prohibit abortion after 20 weeks.

                Link
                Last edited by Teallaura; 08-30-2022, 12:17 PM.
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Quill Sword

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

                  My understanding is that there was a lot of outright lying on the part of opponents that convinced people that the law was more restrictive than it was. Also, Kansas is not a bellwether - a lot of states have protected life and are actively changing laws.

                  It's a long fight - but we just won a HUGE victory. Little too early to be this depressed.

                  Edit: Kansas didn't liberalize its laws - while not great they still prohibit abortion after 20 weeks.

                  Link
                  It's not a fight if pro-life politicians won't participate.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                    It's not a fight if pro-life politicians won't participate.
                    Sure it is - we hire them, remember? Idiots in office make things harder, sure, but they don't have the final say. Voters do.

                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

                      Sure it is - we hire them, remember? Idiots in office make things harder, sure, but they don't have the final say. Voters do.
                      So where the rubber hits the road - what do we do with candidates who backtrack on pro-life positions after the primaries? See https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/29/polit...ion/index.html for numerous examples. The National Review hosted an editorial from one writer who acknowledged that it was distasteful to go back but that Blake Masters (one backtracker) should still be supported as the "pro-life candidate". But it seems obvious to me that still supporting such a candidate sends an implicit message that it doesn't matter what they actually believe as long as they have an R by their name, and they can count on pro-lifers' votes. This disincentivizes taking any action on abortion.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                        So where the rubber hits the road - what do we do with candidates who backtrack on pro-life positions after the primaries? See https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/29/polit...ion/index.html for numerous examples. The National Review hosted an editorial from one writer who acknowledged that it was distasteful to go back but that Blake Masters (one backtracker) should still be supported as the "pro-life candidate". But it seems obvious to me that still supporting such a candidate sends an implicit message that it doesn't matter what they actually believe as long as they have an R by their name, and they can count on pro-lifers' votes. This disincentivizes taking any action on abortion.
                        Lemme ask you this. Do you normally keep trusting people who've lied to you? Why would this be any different?

                        And now is a perfect time - it's unlikely to have enough impact to shift the outcome, but lowering the margin of victory sends a message.

                        So does sending a letter. Dear Candidate, I had intended to support you in the general election but your reversal on the abortion issue brings your trustworthiness into question. I will regrettably be voting for the Democrat who at least didn't lie to me. Sincerely, Me

                        Might wanna phrase it more nicely, but yep.
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Quill Sword

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

                          Lemme ask you this. Do you normally keep trusting people who've lied to you? Why would this be any different?

                          And now is a perfect time - it's unlikely to have enough impact to shift the outcome, but lowering the margin of victory sends a message.

                          So does sending a letter. Dear Candidate, I had intended to support you in the general election but your reversal on the abortion issue brings your trustworthiness into question. I will regrettably be voting for the Democrat who at least didn't lie to me. Sincerely, Me

                          Might wanna phrase it more nicely, but yep.
                          The part about lowering margin of victory is essentially why I frequently vote third party, though I think more in terms of percentage. It does send a message that nominating bad candidates is unacceptable (and I resented when William Lane Craig came out and said that third party voters were guilty of "dereliction of duty". There is a strategy.)
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                          • #28
                            Yeah, there's a balancing act. If you undercut the party that supports your position too much, you just give power to the guys that don't. But if you vote for any idiot with a particular letter behind his name, you get increasingly crappy candidates.

                            In highly charged elections where it will make a electoral difference, it can be a bad strategy - that's probably what Craig is talking about. But at the end of the day, if you don't vote for the best you get stuck with the rest.

                            FYI: This is the kind of thing that needs to be worked on long before the general.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                              It's not a fight if pro-life politicians won't participate.
                              This is the problem every time there is a major SCOTUS decision.

                              The winners rest on their laurels while the other side gets energized.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                Yeah, there's a balancing act. If you undercut the party that supports your position too much, you just give power to the guys that don't. But if you vote for any idiot with a particular letter behind his name, you get increasingly crappy candidates.

                                In highly charged elections where it will make a electoral difference, it can be a bad strategy - that's probably what Craig is talking about. But at the end of the day, if you don't vote for the best you get stuck with the rest.

                                FYI: This is the kind of thing that needs to be worked on long before the general.
                                In context with other statements he made, he was specifically pushing his readers to vote for Trump. Not to pick on him by any means, but his thinking that every election is uniquely consequential is a good example of why people are afraid to go third party. (His blanket condemnation of third party voting also ignores the nuance that presidental votes really only matter in maybe 10-15 states.)
                                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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