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Keynes vs Hayek Rap

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  • Keynes vs Hayek Rap

    Given all the talk about stimulus, I thought this would be a fun distraction. There's actually two parts, I'll post both.

    Part 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk (7:32)

    Part 2

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTQnarzmTOc (10:10)

    Last edited by Diogenes; 02-05-2021, 10:38 PM. Reason: Added times
    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

    -Ghandi (Disputed)

  • #2
    Is economics like religion?
    If one were to presume that religion is based on several underlying/"founding" assumptions---then one could also say this of economics?....That...it is based on presumptions (myths) of human nature/human behavior. One such presumption of Western capitalism is that human beings are selfish rather than moral...therefore, maximizing profits is the goal of individuals and therefore corporations and societies. (Milton Freidman) Perhaps this view has been influenced in some way by Christian presumptions of human nature? (original sin/humanity is sinful)...Yet, of the 7 billion people on earth, only 2 billion are Christians---one might say...such a perspective is a minority opinion in human philosophy?

    Indeed others are trying to come up with different conceptions of economics---such as the King of Bhutan and his idea that the primary purpose of economics should not be profits but happiness (Gross National Happiness)
    https://ophi.org.uk/policy/gross-nat...0of%20progress

    The King of Thailand proposed an economic model of "Sufficiency economics"...
    Three interrelated components and two underlying conditions are central to SEP's application. The three components are reasonableness (or wisdom), moderation, and prudence. Two essential underlying conditions are knowledge and morality. In contrast to the concept that the primary duty of a company is to maximize profits for the benefit of shareholders, SEP emphasizes maximizing the interests of all stakeholders and having a greater focus on long-term profitability as opposed to short-term success.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufficiency_economy

    There is also the model of "Stakeholder Capitalism" (Though I think it has some flaws...)
    https://qz.com/1909715/the-differenc...er-capitalism/

    And...ofcourse....Islamic economics
    https://www.worldeconomicsassociatio...mic-economics/

    With the exception of stakeholder capitalism....the other economic models are based on the presumption of the human as moral being and therefore as having moral responsibilities/obligations.

    Maybe---with crypto and net based economies---new models might be tried out more easily?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
      Given all the talk about stimulus, I thought this would be a fun distraction. There's actually two parts, I'll post both.

      Part 1

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk (7:32)

      Part 2

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTQnarzmTOc (10:10)
      Can you post a short summary as to what their points are?

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Can you post a short summary as to what their points are?
        The videos are edutainment, like School House Rock. I posted them in the section as they're essentially overviews Keynesian economic theory and the Hayek's views which are part of the Austrian School. The first one is a more general overview while the second is more about who the two differ when it comes to government policy.

        For comparison, the first one is like "Walking on Wall Street" while the second one is like "Tyrannosaurus Debt".
        “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

        -Ghandi (Disputed)

        Comment


        • #5
          Keynes analysis of the boom/bust business cycle is to find solution by looking at the bust---that is, govt spending and "judicious" regulations---Hayek approaches the boom/bust problem by looking at the boom and advocating for less govt interference and free markets because he is worried about hyperinflation and bubbles that lead to the bust...apparently the left like Keynesian economics while the right like Hayek...or so some say....

          However, both these people grew up in fairly well-off households...and while Hayek family suffered from hyperinflation that wiped out some of his family wealth---IMO, these people did not experience the world from the bottom end of the scale---the exploited peoples of the capitalist system.
          Our capitalist system is based on one basic principle---win/lose (Zero-sum). From the beginning---in this system, wealth is accumulated at the expense/exploitation of the "other". It does not have to be this way---the pursuit of profit can be win/win (non zero-sum).

          It does not matter if there is a boom or bust---during the boom, wealth accumulates faster in the hands of the rich and during the bust, the price is paid more heavily by the poor---either way, wealth distribution is a one-way street towards the few who are unfairly privileged. This wealth distribution is artificial and it does not have to be this way. Capitalism does not have to be toxic. Just re-imagine capitalism from a vision/paradigm of win/win (non zero-sum) and the pursuit of profits can be turned into a source of benefit for all humanity rather than the worship of systemic greed.

          A zero-sum (win/lose) model (of any system) is self-destructive---its built into the paradigm and so..any system based on such a model will always (eventually) self-destruct. The only systemic model that is sustainable for the long-term is one based on win/win.
          Last edited by siam; 02-09-2021, 10:13 PM.

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