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Iran Sanctions Lifted

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  • #16
    Personally, having lived a portion of my life in a country that was under sanctions (because of the whole stupid apartheid thing) I think sanctions do more harm than good.

    So while trusting Iran somewhat less than I could throw them, I do agree with lifting the sanctions.
    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
    1 Corinthians 16:13

    "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
    -Ben Witherington III

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      Wow. This thread is priceless. Obama achieved a major foreign policy success. He took a previous enemy, and set them on the path to friendship:
      Yes, Iran, the world's greatest supporter of terrorism, is the best friend the US could possibly have.

      Good job, Obama.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Yes, Iran, the world's greatest supporter of terrorism, is the best friend the US could possibly have.
        Saudi Arabia is the world's greatest direct supporter of terrorism. They supported al Qaeda, and now they're supporting ISIS and other terrorists around the region.

        Iran has done some bad things in the past, certainly. How long exactly do you propose holding their past actions against them? Indefinitely? Are they ever allowed to repent and start over in your book? Mostly Iran has a history of being victimized by America. America overthrew their democratically elected government and installed a totalitarian one. America shot down one of their civilian airliners, killing everyone on board, and never apologized. The list goes on. Iran has every right to be angry for how America has mistreated them. But how long exactly do you think they should hold America's past actions against it? Indefinitely? Should they ever forgive and start over?

        At the present point in time, an alliance between the US and Iran makes sense. They've got common interests, the wrongs done 30 years ago are enough in the past to move on, and they've both got leadership that's willing to talk and negotiate. Given America's major allies in the region (Saudi Arabia, and Turkey) are busy helping the mutual enemies of the US and Iran, and Iran has the region's second-biggest supply of oil after Saudi Arabia, it makes nothing but sense for the US to work towards and alliance with Iran, in order that the US can stop being so dependent on Saudi Arabian oil and have the freedom to challenge Saudi Arabia about its ongoing terrorist activities.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Saudi Arabia is the world's greatest direct supporter of terrorism. They supported al Qaeda, and now they're supporting ISIS and other terrorists around the region.
          Quite possibly so.

          Iran has done some bad things in the past, certainly.
          You have GOT to be kidding? Just six months ago...

          Source: WSJ

          WASHINGTON—The State Department said Iran’s support for terrorism was “undiminished” in 2014, and the U.S. remains very concerned about the activities of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards and its proxies in the Middle East.

          The U.S. worries about Iran’s activities were included in an annual report of global terrorism between 2013 and 2014, released Friday.

          Of particular concern, the report said, was Iran’s continued support of the powerful Hezbollah militia and political party in Lebanon; and its assistance to fighters supporting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s regime. Iran also hasn’t identified or initiated judicial proceedings against senior al Qaeda leaders it has in custody.

          The release comes less than two weeks before a June 30 deadline for a deal on limiting Iran’s nuclear program. U.S. officials say those talks are separate from any destabilizing activities in the region by Tehran.

          © Copyright Original Source



          the wrongs done 30 years ago are enough in the past to move on,
          THIRTY YEARS AGO????? How bout that past thirty years up to now?
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Raphael View Post
            Personally, having lived a portion of my life in a country that was under sanctions (because of the whole stupid apartheid thing) I think sanctions do more harm than good.

            So while trusting Iran somewhat less than I could throw them, I do agree with lifting the sanctions.
            Could you expand on "more harm than good"?

            My general impression is that without the international sanctions, South Africa would never have moved beyond Apartheid and Iran would never have agreed to end their nuclear enrichment program. I'm barely aware of how the sanctions have affected resident populations, having only looked at claims of collateral damage from the sanctions regime in Iraq. Is this what you're talking about in South Africa.

            Specifics if you can, please. Thanks!

            Comment


            • #21
              Of course, sanctions are no guarantee of effecting any sort of meaningful change at all. All they've done in Cuba and North Korea have compounded economic misery for civilian populations with no end in sight.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                Of course, sanctions are no guarantee of effecting any sort of meaningful change at all. All they've done in Cuba and North Korea have compounded economic misery for civilian populations with no end in sight.
                And there always seems to be ways for countries to cheat.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                  Could you expand on "more harm than good"?

                  My general impression is that without the international sanctions, South Africa would never have moved beyond Apartheid and Iran would never have agreed to end their nuclear enrichment program. I'm barely aware of how the sanctions have affected resident populations, having only looked at claims of collateral damage from the sanctions regime in Iraq. Is this what you're talking about in South Africa.

                  Specifics if you can, please. Thanks!
                  Will do later, I'm at work at the moment, and have home group this evening. (remind me if I don't get to it)
                  Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                  1 Corinthians 16:13

                  "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                  -Ben Witherington III

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Wow. This thread is priceless. Obama achieved a major foreign policy success. He took a previous enemy, and set them on the path to friendship:
                    - They've disarmed their nuclear program.
                    - They've freed the Americans they had imprisoned.
                    - They fed and immediately returned US soldiers who strayed into their territory.
                    - The Ayatollah recanted on the phrase "death to America", creatively explaining that all along it totally meant death to imperialistic and arrogant foreign policies and that "It goes without saying that the slogan does not mean death to the American nation".
                    - They're ready to sell oil to America
                    - They're ready to fight ISIS

                    They are about the only major power in the region, not currently causing chaos. Turkey and Saudi Arabia, America's so-called "allies" of the past 20 years, are both sowing chaos in the middle east and actively supporting a lot of the instability and terrorism, including ISIS. Iran is the main power in the region that it does makes sense for America to ally with, and who is not actively undermining peace at every turn.

                    And instead of thanking and praising Obama like he deserves for turning a major enemy into an ally, thereby saving the country trillions in future wars and thousands of American lives, and thereby increasing America's influence and authority in the region and the world, and thereby putting the region and the world on a path towards peace...
                    Instead all you guys do is claim Obama must be doing it because he "hates America". You're nuts. You're just utterly, completely, and totally, ignorant, mislead, uninformed, crazy and insane.

                    And you're comparing him to Carter as if it were an insult. Carter famously made lasting peace between Israel and Egypt. Egypt was Israel's single biggest enemy, and under Carter's leadership they made a peace treaty that has lasted right through to the present day. Given the obsession US Christians seem to have for supporting Israel, Carter ought to be your #1 favorite president for his successful removal of the greatest threat to Israel.
                    Some of this remains to be seen, of course, but I agree that it is a worthwhile effort.
                    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      Wow. This thread is priceless. Obama achieved a major foreign policy success. He took a previous enemy, and set them on the path to friendship:
                      - They've disarmed their nuclear program.
                      How do you know? The inspectors are most likely not going on their military installation at Pachim and will, according to established IAEA policy, monitor via video camera while the Iranians take samples themselves. And they continue ballistic missile tests against UN demands. And they have vowed to continue supporting Hezbollah.

                      - They've freed the Americans they had imprisoned.
                      To get their 100 billion dollars from the US and allies. And it was a "prisoner swap" in exchange for pardons or charges dropped against seven Iranians — six of whom hold dual U.S. citizenship — serving time for or accused of sanctions violations in the United States. And they get to remain in the US.


                      - They fed and immediately returned US soldiers who strayed into their territory.
                      Again, to get their money

                      - The Ayatollah recanted on the phrase "death to America", creatively explaining that all along it totally meant death to imperialistic and arrogant foreign policies and that "It goes without saying that the slogan does not mean death to the American nation".
                      Riiiiight...

                      - They're ready to sell oil to America
                      For the economic benefit alone.

                      - They're ready to fight ISIS
                      Because ISIS is sunni and Iran is majority Shia.

                      They are about the only major power in the region, not currently causing chaos.
                      They fund Hezbollah

                      Turkey and Saudi Arabia, America's so-called "allies" of the past 20 years, are both sowing chaos in the middle east and actively supporting a lot of the instability and terrorism, including ISIS. Iran is the main power in the region that it does makes sense for America to ally with, and who is not actively undermining peace at every turn.
                      You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Iran is actively supporting several major Shia terrorist organizations.

                      And instead of thanking and praising Obama like he deserves for turning a major enemy into an ally,
                      No one in their right mind thinks Iran is even remotely our ally.

                      Source: usatoday.com

                      The level of U.S.-Iran hostility was revealed when Abbas Araghchi, Iran’s chief negotiator in Vienna, gave an off-the-record talk to the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting. The comments were briefly published online before being pulled down.

                      “People should not get the feeling that America is now our friend and that enmities are a thing of the past," said Araghchi. "This is definitely not the case. Our enmity against the U.S., and their enmity towards us, is not over. We have managed and solved just one bilateral issue."

                      © Copyright Original Source




                      thereby saving the country trillions in future wars and thousands of American lives, and thereby increasing America's influence and authority in the region and the world, and thereby putting the region and the world on a path towards peace...
                      The Sunnis and Shia do not want peace with each other. Your thorough ignorance notwithstanding.

                      Instead all you guys do is claim Obama must be doing it because he "hates America".
                      I don't think he is doing it because he hates America. I think he is doing it because he is an incompetent moron who thinks that everyone can get along if we just smile hard enough.

                      You're nuts. You're just utterly, completely, and totally, ignorant, mislead, uninformed, crazy and insane.
                      No, you are the one who is uninformed and delusional. You are an outsider with no more knowledge on the subject than what a google search can offer you. I work for the Army's intelligence community under this moron Commander in Chief. I know what we are expecting from Iran out of all of this.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/iran-blog/2015/oct/01/iran-rouhani-popularity-misperceptions-nuclear-deal


                        The Iranian government has been far more effective than the American administration in galvanising public opinion in support of the nuclear agreement. According to a recent survey by IranPoll.com, a Toronto-based polling company, for the University of Maryland, three in four Iranians support the nuclear agreement and give high marks to Iran’s President Hassan Rouhani for making it happen.

                        The deal has helped Rouhani consolidate his political standing, with 89% of Iranians expressing favourable attitudes toward him and 60% saying they want the president’s allies and supporters to win control of parliament in elections due in February. Much of this support, however, appears to rest on misperceptions about Iran’s commitments under the agreement and on unrealistic expectations about its likely economic benefits.

                        A majority (56%) incorrectly believe Iran has not agreed to limit its nuclear research and development activities. Sixty-one percent incorrectly believe there are no conditions under which the International Atomic Energy Agency is permitted to inspect Iranian military sites. A majority (59%) are also under the false impression that the agreement means all US sanctions, even those unrelated to Iran’s nuclear programme, will be eventually lifted.

                        © Copyright Original Source

                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I honestly don't believe he's stupid. I think it just has to be extreme narcissism coupled with his liberal... He thinks he's smarter than everybody else and is the only one who understands the world. OK, so maybe that's stupid.
                          Exactly my point. He thinks he can make everyone hold hands and sing Kum-by-yah.....like I said STOOOPID!!! He plays on dah "feels" of people... oh I want to bring peace peace peace and love and hippie....ok. yeah stupid. He can't....does that mean I disagree with everything Obama has done? No. But I think the good stuff that has been done has been him being on a string as a ventroliquist by those in congress that actually KNEW what they were doing.... for the most part.
                          A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                          George Bernard Shaw

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Good job, Obama.
                            True. Allies against Islamic State.
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irania...0%93present%29
                            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                            “not all there” - you know who you are

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                              True. Allies against Islamic State.
                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irania...0%93present%29
                              So, you are going to claim that Obama is responsible for the Shia hating the Sunni now?
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              - Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                                So, you are going to claim that Obama is responsible for the Shia hating the Sunni now?
                                Ah, No, are you?

                                “[Regional Shia power Iran has seen IS - which regards Shia Muslims as heretics who should be killed - advance to within 25 miles (40km) of its border.

                                Although Iran stands on the opposite side of much of the international community over Syria, it has called for co-operation against IS. It has reached out to its rival Saudi Arabia - the leading Sunni power - and turned a blind eye to US actions in Iraq, which it has historically opposed.

                                Officially Iran denies it has deployed any combat troops in Syria, but in June 2015, the official Irna news agency said at least 400 Iranian and Iran-based Afghan "volunteers" had been killed in the past four years.

                                In Iraq, the Iranians have played a key role in countering IS. Revolutionary Guards have advised Iraqi security forces, Iranian pilots have carried out air strikes, and Iranian-backed Shia militia have been mobilised.]”

                                http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29074514
                                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                                “not all there” - you know who you are

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