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The nature and history of Executive Orders

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  • The nature and history of Executive Orders

    Each political party seems to moan in protest when "the other guy" issues an executive order that seems "overreaching".

    I have been taught that "Executive Orders" were intended for the President to buy a desk, or some other fairly mundane thing, without calling a congressional session, since everybody came in on horses and buggies.

    Carrik, however, in the shoutbox, said "I confess to knowing little of the scope of executive orders"

    Well, in truth, I have to agree -- I only know what I've been told, and that came from "conservative think".

    So, I'm asking.

    What is the true scope of "Executive Orders"? Citations, please, not just opinions.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  • #2
    There's a pretty good analysis of them here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Execut...roclamations#1

    tl;dr: Executive orders are directives that the President uses to enact changes within the Executive branch, and how the Executive Branch does things. If an executive order stems directly from a delineated Constitutional power, or if it stems from authority that Congress has explicitly delegated to the president on a certain issue, then an EO _may_ have the force of law. If an EO deals solely with internal operations of part of the Executive Branch, then they're not law, they're just internal directives.

    Congress does not have the power to overturn EOs, but SCOTUS does, and has.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Outis View Post
      There's a pretty good analysis of them here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Execut...roclamations#1

      tl;dr: Executive orders are directives that the President uses to enact changes within the Executive branch, and how the Executive Branch does things. If an executive order stems directly from a delineated Constitutional power, or if it stems from authority that Congress has explicitly delegated to the president on a certain issue, then an EO _may_ have the force of law. If an EO deals solely with internal operations of part of the Executive Branch, then they're not law, they're just internal directives.

      Congress does not have the power to overturn EOs, but SCOTUS does, and has.
      So, if we have a liberal court, and a liberal president, we're sunk? Or if we have a conservative court and a conservative president, we're sunk?

      Do you think the founding fathers anticipated the eventuality that a president would bank on having the ability to do an end-run around congress, knowing that the court wouldn't stay his overreach?
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        What is the true scope of "Executive Orders"? Citations, please, not just opinions.
        Executive Orders: Washington - Obama

        They've been on a general decline since WWII, with Obama following the trend.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
          Executive Orders: Washington - Obama

          They've been on a general decline since WWII, with Obama following the trend.
          If you order 1000 executive orders of an inane nature, and I order ONE executive order affecting the removal of thine head, can it be said that "they've been on a general decline since WWII, with CP following the trend"?
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            If you order 1000 executive orders of an inane nature, and I order ONE executive order affecting the removal of thine head, can it be said that "they've been on a general decline since WWII, with CP following the trend"?
            If the raw numbers don't create the story we're wanting to hear, can we ignore them by coming up with a rationale to say "those numbers don't count"?
            The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell. — St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37

            As ever, Jesse

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              So, if we have a liberal court, and a liberal president, we're sunk? Or if we have a conservative court and a conservative president, we're sunk?
              CP, despite all the complaints from both sides about "liberal" or "conservative" courts, they've done a pretty good job. Yeah, I don't like the results of certain decisions (Citizens United being a classic example), but I read the ruling. With the Constitution and the law written as they are, the ruling was right on target, as much as I hate the results.

              And I'll also note that with a very few exceptional acts, each and every president I can remember honestly and sincerely did their best by the country. Even "Tricky Dick," while going down in the morass of Watergate, was still trying to come to grips with the economy, desegregation, and still pursuing foreign diplomatic exchanges that he saw as being advantageous to the US.

              Do you think the founding fathers anticipated the eventuality that a president would bank on having the ability to do an end-run around congress, knowing that the court wouldn't stay his overreach?
              EOs _cannot_ do an end run around Congress. The only thing an EO can do (as I noted before) is (a) implement authority directly vested in the President by the Constitution; (b) implement authority granted to the President by Congress, or; (c) make internal policy changes within the Executive Branch. All three of these categories MUST be in compliance to the Constitution, and to the laws as passed by Congress and signed into law by the President.

              The folks who tell you that the President is using EOs to do an end run around Congress are lying, CP. Don't fall for the lies.

              Comment


              • #8
                I commend you, Cow Poker, for asking this question and not just relying on the ConservativeThink, with which you may be more comfortable.

                Good response, Ούτις, explains executive orders well.
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Outis View Post
                  The folks who tell you that the President is using EOs to do an end run around Congress are lying, CP. Don't fall for the lies.
                  Idioutis sure loves throwing around accusations of lying. And somehow they are always coupled with false statements. Imagine that.
                  "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                  There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                    If the raw numbers don't create the story we're wanting to hear, can we ignore them by coming up with a rationale to say "those numbers don't count"?
                    Never implied that, lao - that's a bit disingenuous.... but that doesn't change the fact that WITHIN those numbers there can be ONE event that makes a significant impact.

                    And, I'm not arguing... I'm ASKING.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                      I commend you, Cow Poker, for asking this question and not just relying on the ConservativeThink, with which you may be more comfortable.
                      The value of Tweb has been, for me, to expose my beliefs or leanings to examination -- unfortunately (and this is part of the landscape, I guess) there are those who, at least at times, delight in castigation rather than instruction.

                      But, thanks... you duh man!
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        The value of Tweb has been, for me, to expose my beliefs or leanings to examination -- unfortunately (and this is part of the landscape, I guess) there are those who, at least at times, delight in castigation rather than instruction.

                        But, thanks... you duh man!
                        I thought you ran cattle...
                        I'm not here anymore.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                          I thought you ran cattle...
                          No, the cattle run themselves. He just pokes them into what he hopes is the correct direction.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Outis View Post
                            No, the cattle run themselves. He just pokes them into what he hopes is the correct direction.
                            And it USUALLY works, but not always. (what works better is to drive that old rusty ford ranger with the feed bags in the back, and I can't think of a single time the cows did not, en masse, go precisely in the direction I intend)

                            (come to think of it -- even when I DON'T intend, if I just happen to be driving that truck for other purposes)
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                              I thought you ran cattle...
                              We don't castigate the cows (bulls) even when we're castrating. We're a very gentle castration outfit. Wanna come to our next calf fry?
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment

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