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Those Liberal Social "Scientists"

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  • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Nothing I do ensures my own salvation.
    This presumably is a faith not works answer. “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,”

    But James says: “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

    This must be salvation for atheists.
    Last edited by firstfloor; 01-08-2016, 08:56 AM.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

    Comment


    • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
      This presumably is a faith not works answer. “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,”

      But James says: “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
      Ah! "Out of Context Bible Battle"
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
        Not kicked out but I was pretty near the bottom of the class. A very grumpy little Protestant was I.
        And you've been getting even ever since.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          And you've been getting even ever since.
          That’s a handsome tractor you’ve got there CP. Did you buy it new?
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            That’s a handsome tractor you’ve got there CP. Did you buy it new?
            Laughing. It took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Laughing. It took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about.
              Actually, can you tell me what year and model that is? I have a friend who loves old tractors.
              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

              Comment


              • Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                Actually, can you tell me what year and model that is? I have a friend who loves old tractors.
                That's just a random picture I found on the internet --- I love old tractors, too, especially the wood fired steam ones!
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  Yes, Catholic doctrine is nothing if not consistent and logical granted the initial premise, but the initial premise is sometimes wrong. To base the normative paradigm on incorrect facts about the nature of homosexuality is a problem.
                  Which incorrect fact(s)?

                  Mental illnesses are debilitating and often seriously affect the quality of life of the sufferer. And of course such people should never be stigmatized. But homosexuality is not equivalent to a mental illness in any way. Studies have found same-sex and heterosexual couples to be comparable to each other on all measures of relationship satisfaction, stability and commitment.

                  Mainstream culture, as you say, now understands this and is accepting of homosexual relationships. But the conservative Christian mindset prefers to think of it as disordered, presumably based upon their view of scripture, despite the lack of clinical evidence supporting homosexuality as a disorder.
                  Thanks for your input on that question. Your logic is coherent, though I'm too stubborn to be completely convinced on that point.
                  Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                    Your logic is coherent, though I'm too stubborn to be completely convinced on that point.
                    Don't ya hate it when that happens?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      That's just a random picture I found on the internet --- I love old tractors, too, especially the wood fired steam ones!
                      OK, do you have a link to a higher res version of this tractor? I'll see if my friend can identify it. Another friend of mine has a really old John Deer tractor that still runs. He started it up for me a few years back and it is really cool.
                      βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                      ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                      אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Don't ya hate it when that happens?
                        You would know even better than me.
                        Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                          So let me get this summary of responses by liberals (all of which here seem to be atheists) to the article.

                          No one contested it.

                          Firstfloor and Tassman began a red herring about homosexuality contra Christianity.

                          Psychic Missile seem to be asking whether liberal bias is bad.

                          About the only one so far who addressed the opening in a mature way is Sea of Red.
                          As the OP linked to a popular press write-up that included a link to a close facsimile of the talk, I watched that first before considering a reply. Judging from the "liberal," and even more so by the "conservative" replies, I'm guessing no one else has bothered, which, considering some of the remarks here, especially by the OP himself, is highly ironic.

                          It's first week right now. I was up past 3 taking care of issues last night, and expect today to be much the same, so any further comments will have to wait ... long enough for anyone interested to correct that oversight.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                            This presumably is a faith not works answer. “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,”

                            But James says: “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

                            This must be salvation for atheists.
                            It is a "not by works alone" answer.

                            And salvation and justification are not identical concepts.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              It is a "not by works alone" answer.

                              And salvation and justification are not identical concepts.
                              Some also say that salvation and redemption are not necessarily the same thing. I came across the the other day in a discussion of Irenaeus' views.
                              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                                As the OP linked to a popular press write-up that included a link to a close facsimile of the talk, I watched that first before considering a reply. Judging from the "liberal," and even more so by the "conservative" replies, I'm guessing no one else has bothered, which, considering some of the remarks here, especially by the OP himself, is highly ironic.

                                It's first week right now. I was up past 3 taking care of issues last night, and expect today to be much the same, so any further comments will have to wait ... long enough for anyone interested to correct that oversight.
                                Here is an annotated transcript, with feedback by other professionals addressed by the author. Interesting stuff.
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                                sigpic
                                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                                Comment

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