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  • #61
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, like you know the TOTALITY of my thoughts and beliefs based on some posts on a Christian website.
    CP. let's be honest ... based on some of your sillier posts here, I still have doubts that you think at all! You must make those before you've had coffee.

    Ah, so the hypocrisy is based on the excuse "we'd pull more funding from the schools"... so.... let's keep funding schools that perform miserably, and refuse the FREEDOM OF CHOICE to take their kids to schools that generally operate more efficiently financially, and perform better academically, because we have a loyalty to the UNIONS who run those government schools.
    You can spin it that way if you like ... but just because it spins comfortably does not make your analysis accurate.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      C - THIS is the part of DE's statement that I actually QUOTED, and responded to. It says NOTHING about voting. From that, however, you assume....

      YOU said vote, and included me in something you had no right to assume. The "clearly espouse" is only in your mind, and quite an overreach.
      The context was voting. It was in reference to voting that DE responded to my posts, and it was in reference to voting that I originally responded to seanD. If you weren't talking about voting then it wasn't clear.
      I'm not here anymore.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
        The context was voting.
        The statement which I CARVED OUT, and to which I responded, said nothing about voting.

        It was in reference to voting that DE responded to my posts, and it was in reference to voting that I originally responded to seanD. If you weren't talking about voting then it wasn't clear.
        I did not respond to the entire post, C -- I very purposely singled out the statement to which I was responding. I think you, at times, just seem to be looking for a fight that's not there. If you really cared about what I thought, you could ASK instead of ACCUSE. You just lumped me together with the others because it fit your agenda.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          The statement which I CARVED OUT, and to which I responded, said nothing about voting.
          What did you think that "influence" was referring to?


          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          I did not respond to the entire post, C -- I very purposely singled out the statement to which I was responding.
          I did see that.


          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          I think you, at times, just seem to be looking for a fight that's not there. If you really cared about what I thought, you could ASK instead of ACCUSE. You just lumped me together with the others because it fit your agenda.


          If there's one thing that's been pretty clear in all of our interactions over the years, it's that you truly do not have a clue where I'm coming from or why I post. I don't know if it's just with me, but you're readings are almost always way off. Perhaps we can work on this, but this thread is not the place to do it. Will you join me here?
          I'm not here anymore.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
            If there's one thing that's been pretty clear in all of our interactions over the years, it's that you truly do not have a clue where I'm coming from or why I post. I don't know if it's just with me, but you're readings are almost always way off.
            Yeah, entirely my fault.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Yeah, entirely my fault.
              I wasn't trying to place blame.
              I'm not here anymore.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                I think it depends on what you consider larger issues, nor is it irrelevant even then. Science education is a common sore point for a lot of non-theists, and it's one area where the Christian demographic shows up in force. However, other issues are not so cut and dried. The pro-life/pro-choice debate is not cleanly split along religious views. That's why the huge demographic isn't immediately obvious. It's still present, but it's not clearly acting for one side alone.

                You said, specifically:


                and



                Both of these statements are absolutely false. The influence is the same for all issues. The difference, as I noted, is that the demographic isn't unilaterally in favor of one side or the other. This is why I said that they aren't voting the way you think they should be.


                In other words, your claim that



                is indicative of how you think they should be voting. It's not how Christians actually vote in practice. This in no way negates their political influence.
                You've veered away from the point I was making. But Outis clarified his intent of the thread in post #14, so my point is now irrelevant -- assuming of course that Outis didn't just move goalposts from his initial intent of the thread.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by seanD View Post
                  You've veered away from the point I was making. But Outis clarified his intent of the thread in post #14, so my point is now irrelevant -- assuming of course that Outis didn't just move goalposts from his initial intent of the thread.
                  Fair enough.
                  I'm not here anymore.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                    There's a really important factor that you're missing here. Christians DO hold political influence, given that they're far and away the largest demographic of voters. The factor that you're missing is that most of them don't believe (or vote) quite as you think they should. Even with the numbers dwindling, the number of Christians remains much greater than the non-theists and alternate faiths.
                    Yep. It would be like a conservative minority in a majority Islamic state complaining that Muslims don't have real voting power because women are allowed to drive when an adult man is in the vehicle.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Outis View Post
                      First and foremost, if you're agreeing with DE, you're probably headed down the wrong road already.

                      Time for more schooling. Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism.
                      I know.
                      The closest we have ever come to fascism are the fringe groups, all on the right of the political spectrum, all (rightly) rejected by the mainstream.
                      You couldn't be much farther wrong here. Perhaps you need a history lesson. Mussolini got his start as a communist; while he eventually broke with communism, he remained a radical leftist. The first Fascisti party platform contained these notorious right-wing proposals: Lowering the minimum voting age to 18, universal suffrage (including for women), the 8-hour workday, a minimum wage, reform of the pension system, and a large progressive tax on capital. Mussolini was quite popular among progressives in the US until his invasion of Ethiopia. Muckraker Ida Tarbell gushed over him.

                      Over here in the US, during WW I the left was advocating things like Prohibition, eugenics, and loyalty oaths. Thousands of people were jailed merely for voicing anti-war sentiment. Woodrow Wilson railed against "hypenated-Americans" who had been born abroad and moved here. We had state control of industry (the War Industries Board) and a full-fledged propaganda ministry (the Committee for Public Information).

                      The WIB, run by progressives appointed by their progressive president, was described by Grosvenor Clarkson as "an industrial dictatorship without parallel - a dictatorship by force of necessity and common consent which step by step at last encompassed the Nation and united into a coordinated and mobile whole." The CPI was run by George Creel, a progressive journalist.

                      Sinclair Lewis, another progressive, in his novel It Can't Happen Here about the very possibility of a fascist takeover here, had his protagonist argue that it had already happened - under Woodrow Wilson.
                      Economically, fascism relies on a unified industry in service to the state, and uses protectionist and expansionist military and economic policy to achieve the goal of utter self-sufficiency. Fascism is a word that has a very specific meaning, not just a random insult that you can throw at politicians you don't like.
                      Fascism does not require an expansionist military. An expansionist military and war are useful means to the end of getting everyone to pull together for the good of the whole, but they are not the only means. Any crisis will do.
                      Obama is not fascist.
                      He is a liberal fascist, in the words of H. G. Wells (who advocated it). Wells railed against "the dilatory indecisiveness of democracy" - much like Barack Obama's obvious disgust with Congress's unwillingness to go along with what he wants. Wells was a big fan of FDR, calling him "the most effective transmitting instrument possible for the coming of the new world order." FDR, the man who tried his own end-around of Congress in his attempt to pack the Supreme Court.
                      Look at the list. Who passed these regulations--Obama, or Congress.
                      Obama campaigned for them and signed them (in the case of the ACA, without an iota of support from the other party - what's that about him being a "centrist" again?) He is the leader of his party, yes.
                      More than that, look at the list of Obama's executive orders. They're readily available on the internet. Point me out one EO, just one, where he exceeded his constitutional authority.
                      As far as I'm concerned, pretty much every EO, issued by whatever president, is an arrogation of powers properly belonging to the legislative branch.
                      Yes. You need to explain why you are either (a, and unlikely in my opinion) dishonest enough to repeat known falsehoods, or (b, and more likely) foolish enough to be a dupe for the talking points of the liars who are pushing known falsehoods.
                      How magnanimous of you. And you have the chutzpah to castigate me for demonizing my ideological opponents.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        And you have the chutzpah to castigate me for demonizing my ideological opponents.
                        If the shoe fits, wear it. You simply need to decide which shoe it is, which you can do at your leisure.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Outis View Post
                          If the shoe fits, wear it. You simply need to decide which shoe it is, which you can do at your leisure.
                          Yes, it's much easier to cast aspersions than deal with contrary evidence (from fellow liberals, no less).

                          Remind me to stick to spam discussions with you, because I like you even though we don't see eye to eye on much.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment

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