Originally posted by Joel
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Surrogate Mother Told to Abort Female Triplet!
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostTo exchange vows in that way isn't bad, but it isn't the full sacrament of marriage
On another note, I'm coming to agree with your point re: commodification.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostSeveral early saints agreed to marry (because they had legally been betrothed) but live celibate lives together. Consummation of a marriage is certainly not a legally indispensable element of marriage (outside of the purview of the RCC, at any rate).
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostSure it is. That's like saying baptism isn't the full sacrament without confirmation.
On another note, I'm coming to agree with your point re: commodification.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Joel View PostThen I don't know what you mean by "commodification".I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostI don't know the canon law surrounding marriage as well as I should (for all I know, you're right about the sacramentality question), but I'm pretty sure that never having consummated a marriage means that marriage can be annulled.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostThey had other kids.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostOriginally posted by JoelOriginally posted by CarrikatureOriginally posted by JoelAs I've just been discussing with Spartacus a few posts up, surrogacy could be done via free gift--without any exchange. So if the objection is to the presence of an exchange, then that is not an objection to the act itself.
"commodification is about unsalable things becoming salable."
And says it's a Marxist concept, in which normal employment is commodification.
The complaint (of those complaining about commodification) is that something is for sale that ought not be for sale.
So... it entails that the thing is being bought/sold. Which, as I was saying, is not an essential property of surrogacy, so it is not an objection to the act itself. Unless you mean something else by "commodification"?
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Originally posted by Joel View PostFrom the article:
"commodification is about unsalable things becoming salable."
And says it's a Marxist concept, in which normal employment is commodification.
The complaint (of those complaining about commodification) is that something is for sale that ought not be for sale.
So... it entails that the thing is being bought/sold. Which, as I was saying, is not an essential property of surrogacy, so it is not an objection to the act itself. Unless you mean something else by "commodification"?Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWhile it is not an essential property of surrogacy, it is an exceedingly frequent property of surrogacy.
And if compensation were the wrong, then why wouldn't that (instead of surrogacy) be the thing they want to ban? (Like how states ban prostitution without banning sexual intercourse.)
(And I myself am not convinced that compensating a surrogate is a bad thing.)
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostIf I give you something without charging you, does that mean it is not a commodity? A sandwich? A car? Land? Shares in a company?
You might be suggesting that the existence of commerce for something elsewhere makes it a commodity everywhere. But I'm not sure that's a good way to approach it. Prostitution occurs, but it doesn't seem reasonable to conclude, from that, that every instance of sexual intercourse is therefore a commodity, including when it occurs as a free gift.
On the other hand, if you defined commodity just in terms of fungibility, then it would be independent of whether an instance was sold or given as a gift. A share of a company is a commodity in that sense, that it is fungible, regardless how ownership is transferred.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThat depends on how the relevant passages are interpreted. Even most Protestants held to the perpetual virginity of Mary until the 19th century.I'm not here anymore.
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