Originally posted by Bill the Cat
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Definitions of Marriage
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Originally posted by phank View PostWhine all you want. Discrimination against gays for the sake of discrimination is a lost battle. Within a short time, same-sex marriage will be the law of the land, sexual-orientation will be added to the CRA list, and you can cry into your bible until you find the next group to hate on.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by phank View PostWhine all you want.
Human male A (25, unmarried US Citizen) is standing in a room with 10 other people. 5 are female and 5 are male
Human female B is 21, unmarried US Citizen, and not related to Human male A
Human female C is 14, unmarried US Citizen, and not related to Human male A
Human female D is 25, married US Citizen, and not related to Human male A
Human female E is 19, unmarried US Citizen, and is Human male A's sister
Human female F is 30, unmarried British Ciitizen, and is not related to human male A
Human male B is 21, unmarried US Citizen, and not related to Human male A
Human male C is 14, unmarried US Citizen, and not related to Human male A
Human male D is 25, married US Citizen, and not related to Human male A
Human male E is 19, unmarried US Citizen, and is Human male A's brother
Human male F is 30, unmarried British Ciitizen, and is not related to human male A
Who could human male A marry under the law (before the recent changes in the law)That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by phank View PostYou can't look it up yourself? Have you tried google?That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Postyou sure are afraid to answer the question. I understand. It is ok phank. We all know the answer and how it destroys the "unequal" nonsense. Your lack of courage here is understandable.
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Originally posted by phank View PostYawn. If you say so. You "win" whatever prize you've been trying for. Meanwhile, laws are changing in positive ways. We understand that you don't like the changes. It's OK, Bill. You'll live with them (and probably never notice a difference anyway).Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostOK, I'm going to ask you to leave now, phank. I'd love to have you stay and provide your perspective, which I think is in many ways wonderfully typical of the modern view, but it's clear that you're not particularly inclined to discuss this in sincerity and good faith. Please don't post in this thread again.Last edited by Bill the Cat; 06-12-2014, 12:41 PM.
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Originally posted by phank View PostYawn. If you say so. You "win" whatever prize you've been trying for.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by phank View PostSorry, but that kind of snark doesn't pass for intelligent discussion. I've been discussing this in full sincerity and good faith, but that does NOT include doing someone else's homework for them. If refusing to look up what CP can spend a few minutes doing means I get to be called a coward, then who is not acting in good faith anyway?
So I'll repeat for you: equality under the law is being extended to include yet another group which has been discriminated against for no reason the state can find compelling. I regard this as a good sign, much as I regarded the elimination of slavery, and extending the right to vote to women, as good things.
If you are able to present a coherent argument as to why the state has a compelling rationale for denying equal rights to gays, please do so. People who favor legal equality are not ipso facto favoring it insincerely or in bad faith. If you can NOT present such an argument, telling those who build good arguments to shut up and go away hardly puts you in a good light. Can you do better?
Please honour the wishes. Obviously I can't "officially" do anything about it, but I know a few people who haven't participated in this thread who will.The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWhat I am showing is that the law was applied equally to every individual citizen in exactly the same way before this "doctrinal evolution", and that the charge of violating the Equal Protection clause of the 14th is garbage. If you would simply respond to the challenge with who human male A can marry, I can prove my point. If I answer for you, then it is not helping you discover it for yourself. Why are you so adamant that you will not answer a simple question?
I must say your argument is one of the dumber ones in favor of continued discrimination I've seen, and that cover a lot of ground.
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Outis,
I think I should have some free time this upcoming week to give this thread some more attention. I'd like to propose the following exercise as one possible way to draw out the appropriate questions.
It seems impossible to avoid the fact that alternative views of marriage are closely tied with relatively conservative religious groups. It is therefore easy to assume that man-woman marriage is an inherently religious institution, but I do not think that this is quite true. As I understand it, Christianity has placed something of a theological lacquer over what they see as a natural human institution. There are, then, two layers: the theological/religious and the natural.
It is worth noting, however, that to say that it is natural is not necessarily to invoke anything like natural law theory in any of its modern incarnations. Rather, I mean that at some point, religious authorities noticed something that people were already doing and said "this practice has religious significance." They chose this type of relationship and not others, though they may have considered other types of relationship important, to sacramentalize (and then to develop elaborate codes of canon law regarding). The problem for me to address, then, is to adequately explain what that natural practice was.
Does this explanation seem unnecessary, redundant, or otherwise unhelpful?Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostNon sequitur. That the existing laws were applied equally is irrelevant to the fact the existing laws were discriminatory. That's why so many of those unconstitutional laws have been changed over the last few years.
I must say your argument is one of the dumber ones in favor of continued discrimination I've seen, and that cover a lot of ground.
Would you be willing to flesh out this narrative a bit more?Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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