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Lesbian Wedding Cake Denialism

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  • Lesbian Wedding Cake Denialism

    I didn't know much about the story of the Christian bakery who refused to bake a cake for same sex weddings. I DID know, however, that the lesbians cited weight gain AND loss of appetite as two of the harms they suffered by the refusal (from the looks of them, their appetites came back). My stance was that it was stupid for a lesbian couple to even want to have a couple of fundies who were disgusted by them MAKE A CAKE FOR THEM. I thought they were wrong to complain and attention seeking. I felt sorry for the bakers for losing their business and suffering harassment. I was heartened to see that Christians crowdfunded them out of poverty.

    Now the lesbian couple have told their story, and it's obvious that the bakers handled the denial wrongly. The husband quoted Leviticus to the mom of the complainant. The bakers, it turns out, were vindictive media whores.

    I'm still on the fence, but I'm not near as sympathetic to the bakers now (especially that creepy husband) that I know how they handled it. I now understand why the mom complained.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-against-them/
    Last edited by whag; 07-23-2015, 06:45 AM.

  • #2
    I've discussed the case with a friend of mine who is gay, and one thing we both agree on is that a 135k$ fine is insane. But the size of that fine has nothing to do with the law as such, it has something to do with queer fact that in the US you can sue for emotional damage.

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    • #3
      Yeah all fines in the US are insanely large. Same with the prison sentences.

      In this case the bakers don't seem to be very nice people... they posted the personal details of the lesbian couple online and fermented media attention on the subject in a way that encouraged the threats the lesbian couple received as a result, all the while the bakers were literally crying on TV about how they were the ones being persecuted. Then they crowdfunded $400k for themselves, in order to pay their $135k fine. Seems like a 101 course in how to be nasty and get rich doing it.

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      • #4
        So, it's a good idea to seek services you know will offend the server as long as the server isn't a nice person? It is not okay to publicize the situation despite the fact that suits are public information?

        I don't get your complaint. The agency should have been at fault for not making sure the warning was visible on all devices. Facing a major suit only an idiot would have stayed away from the public.

        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          So, it's a good idea to seek services you know will offend the server as long as the server isn't a nice person? It is not okay to publicize the situation despite the fact that suits are public information?

          I don't get your complaint. The agency should have been at fault for not making sure the warning was visible on all devices. Facing a major suit only an idiot would have stayed away from the public.
          No, that's not what happened. They didn't know the bakery was against making cakes for same sex weddings when they sought the service. It appears the husband got a bug up his rear (quoting Leviticus and all). The wife seemed to be more relaxed about it earlier hinting that she would've been fine with it.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            they posted the personal details of the lesbian couple online and fermented media attention on the subject in a way that encouraged the threats the lesbian couple received as a result
            So what? If someone sued me for frivolous reasons and I could use the media against them I'd do it in a heartbeat.

            "I don't like the bakers because they scream as I rain blows upon them".
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
              So what? If someone sued me for frivolous reasons and I could use the media against them I'd do it in a heartbeat.

              "I don't like the bakers because they scream as I rain blows upon them".
              Seeing as how the bakery had such strong principle as to not explain that they don't bake cakes for gay weddings (and presumably any perceived immoral event), they got what they deserved. Obviously, they were afraid of losing business by making such a proclamation. What gigantic faith they had in God to be afraid of losing business by boldly announcing their religious standards.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by whag View Post
                Seeing as how the bakery had such strong principle as to not explain that they don't bake cakes for gay weddings (and presumably any perceived immoral event), they got what they deserved. Obviously, they were afraid of losing business by making such a proclamation. What gigantic faith they had in God to be afraid of losing business by boldly announcing their religious standards.
                They did explain:

                When Cryer and her mother arrived at Sweet Cakes by Melissa, Aaron Klein ushered them to his office, where he then asked for the names of the bride and groom. Told there would be two brides, he refused service right then and there. "I believe I have wasted your time," he claims to have said. "We do not do cakes for same-sex weddings."

                Crying and apologizing to her mother, who Cryer felt she'd deeply embarrassed, she headed to the car. A few moments later, her mother returned to the bakery to defend her daughter. She reasoned with Aaron Klein, saying that she'd once felt as he did, but after having two gay children, her "truth had changed."

                In response, Aaron Klein referenced a Bible verse from Leviticus which in context, he'd cited perniciously to call the Bowman-Cryer family "abominations," which he denies.
                Your OP makes it sound like he just started shouting abomination at them when they asked for a cake but it looks like he just told them they don't do gay marriage cakes. The Leviticus quote came after, when the woman's mother went back specifically to argue the ethical status of gay marriage and is entirely appropriate in a philosophical debate.
                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                  They did explain:



                  Your OP makes it sound like he just started shouting abomination at them when they asked for a cake but it looks like he just told them they don't do gay marriage cakes. The Leviticus quote came after, when the woman's mother went back specifically to argue the ethical status of gay marriage and is entirely appropriate in a philosophical debate.
                  Nope, they didn't explain the way I said they should have in my reply to you. He told them after she asked them to bake a cake for her wedding. No disclaimers in their ads or the front of their shop saying "We don't bake cake for gay weddings," backed by a quote from Leviticus. Instead, a humiliating refusal. It'd have been better if he advertised his Levitical principles to everyone transparently to avoid this situation.

                  Of course, we all know why he didn't. To advertise one's weird principle so openly, he'd have lost some business of heterosexuals who would be offput by that disclaimer.
                  Last edited by whag; 07-23-2015, 05:48 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Normal people don't usually feel the need to advertise that they are normal. It's only because of the widespread support for degeneracy that this is even an issue in the first place. Your explanation makes little sense in light of the fact that they are trying to get publicity on the issue (and added it to their web site before they were ordered to take it down).

                    Plus, it doesn't take a genius to figure out their stance on the issue:




                    And lol @ humiliating. Just how fragile is your ego exactly?
                    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by whag View Post
                      I didn't know much about the story of the Christian bakery who refused to bake a cake for same sex weddings. I DID know, however, that the lesbians cited weight gain AND loss of appetite as two of the harms they suffered by the refusal (from the looks of them, their appetites came back). My stance was that it was stupid for a lesbian couple to even want to have a couple of fundies who were disgusted by them MAKE A CAKE FOR THEM.....
                      Are you kidding. ..
                      I guess you never been to a Baptist fellowship night.
                      To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

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                      • #12
                        I don't get it at all. You're mad because he quoted Leviticus? Should he have quoted Romans instead?

                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          I don't get it at all. You're mad because he quoted Leviticus? Should he have quoted Romans instead?
                          I'm not mad. And, no, you got me all wrong: please DO quote Leviticus to your heart's content. Solemnly recite it like that husband did. Put it on your storefront, even.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by whag View Post
                            I'm not mad. And, no, you got me all wrong: please DO quote Leviticus to your heart's content. Solemnly recite it like that husband did. Put it on your storefront, even.
                            I don't get you at all - seriously, it contradicts what you said in your OP.

                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                              Normal people don't usually feel the need to advertise that they are normal. It's only because of the widespread support for degeneracy that this is even an issue in the first place. Your explanation makes little sense in light of the fact that they are trying to get publicity on the issue (and added it to their web site before they were ordered to take it down).

                              Plus, it doesn't take a genius to figure out their stance on the issue:




                              And lol @ humiliating. Just how fragile is your ego exactly?

                              Gee, I dunno... I mean they could be Unitarian or Episcopalian or one of those 'ians' that wouldn't.....
















































                              I give up. I can't type that with a straight face...

                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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