New Undercover Video of Planned Parenthood

[RumTumTugger]

Probably best not to try and win this one via Dictionary, given the forests of paper that have been spilled trying to define and defend various concepts of personhood.

hand waving the TRUTH away duly noted Sam.

[Jaecp]

Has Sam given any indication he supports abortion or is he contribution to the thread been focused on helping his Christian brethren improve their rhetoric?

[RumTumTugger]

I've never been clear on how we determine objectively when "person-hood" arives.

see my above post Human beings are person by nature Sam and the pro abortionist are using a FALSE DICHOTOMY in order to be able to dehumanize those they wish to kill with impunity.

[lilpixieofterror]

Papa Zoom,

Abortions at 24 weeks are almost exclusively for health of the mother reasons and comprise a vanishingly small amount of abortions, over 90% of which are first trimester.

I'm not even aware of any pp clinic that would handle a 3rd trimester abortion, most places don't go past middle 2nd trimester, anything after 16-19 weeks (depending upon the clinics) is referred to a hospital

What is the magic that produces person-hood, at a random stage of human development?

[Sam]

Sorry Sam, but I know language control and how you control the language by controlling the terms you use. Do you have children? If so, were they babies before they were born or were they fetus? Do women have fetus showers or do they have baby showers? When a women talks about movement during pregnancy, does she say the fetus is moving or the baby is moving? The answer should be pretty obvious, the answer is that the term used is 'baby' and the reason that term is used is the connotations attached to the term. It is always interesting how pro abortionist try to use medical terms such as fetus to refer to the born or non medical terms such as clump of cells or parasite to refer to the unborn. Why do they have such a problem with the term 'baby' Sam? It has nothing to do with medical science (even my doctor, used the term baby). Don't believe me? Here is an article by the Mayo Clinic when they talk about the important of prenatal care:

Be sure to mention even sensitive issues, such as domestic abuse, abortion or past drug use. Remember, the information you share will help your health care provider take the best care of you — and your baby.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-li...e/art-20044882

The article continues to use the term 'baby' and not 'fetus' and it is written by medical professionals. Why is the term 'baby' chosen vs 'fetus'. Quite simple, baby has a different connotation attached to it and thus when we are talking about a wanted 'fetus' we use the term 'baby'. I hate to burst your bubble, but using 'baby' is perfectly valid and is used by medical professionals too. The only time I ever hear the term 'fetus' used is to remove the human connotations and try to attach a non human connotation to what abortion truly is or in school to talk about different stages of animal development.

Sorry Sam, but you're wrong and very wrong at that. See, the personhood argument is just a farce to remove the human element from what you are doing. Interesting enough, all genocidal manics love removing humanity from what they are doing. Jews are non persons and you can do with them what you please. See how easy it is to justify mass murder, by calling what you are doing something else? I know you want to control the language, but I will not let you control the language. Trying to use 'person-hood' argument is your way of hiding the reality of what you are doing; ending the life of a human for the awful crime of daring to exist and trying to hide your crime behind words and phrases.

Your method of argumentation continues to be a dazzling kaleidoscope, Crystal. Unfortunately, we've been down this road before and I know a Quixotic task of maintaining narrow focus on the topic when I see it for the sixth time or so. Enjoy your day/week.

[Jaecp]

Papa Zoom,

Abortions at 24 weeks are almost exclusively for health of the mother reasons and comprise a vanishingly small amount of abortions, over 90% of which are first trimester.

I'm not even aware of any pp clinic that would handle a 3rd trimester abortion, most places don't go past middle 2nd trimester, anything after 16-19 weeks (depending upon the clinics) is referred to a hospital

[Sam]

if you believe that sam I have some land in Florida to sell you.


use of a false dichotomy noted here

noun per·son \ˈpər-sən\

: a human being

: a person who likes or enjoys something specified

law : the body or clothing of a person especially when considered as a place to hide things
Full Definition of PERSON
1
: human, individual —sometimes used in combination especially by those who prefer to avoid man in compounds applicable to both sexes <chairperson> <spokesperson>
2
: a character or part in or as if in a play : guise
3
a : one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians
b : the unitary personality of Christ that unites the divine and human natures
4
a archaic : bodily appearance
b : the body of a human being; also : the body and clothing <unlawful search of the person>
5
: the personality of a human being : self
6
: one (as a human being, a partnership, or a corporation) that is recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties

NOTE the first definition Sam you are a person because you are a human being not because someone arbitrarily decides you are one.

Probably best not to try and win this one via Dictionary, given the forests of paper that have been spilled trying to define and defend various concepts of personhood.

[lilpixieofterror]

If you hear the term "fetus" in biology or health class (or in the medical community at large) then you've got a good lead in understanding why that's the term used when discussing the topic of abortion, which deals specifically with biology, health, and medical practice.

Sorry Sam, but I know language control and how you control the language by controlling the terms you use. Do you have children? If so, were they babies before they were born or were they fetus? Do women have fetus showers or do they have baby showers? When a women talks about movement during pregnancy, does she say the fetus is moving or the baby is moving? The answer should be pretty obvious, the answer is that the term used is 'baby' and the reason that term is used is the connotations attached to the term. It is always interesting how pro abortionist try to use medical terms such as fetus to refer to the born or non medical terms such as clump of cells or parasite to refer to the unborn. Why do they have such a problem with the term 'baby' Sam? It has nothing to do with medical science (even my doctor, used the term baby). Don't believe me? Here is an article by the Mayo Clinic when they talk about the important of prenatal care:

Be sure to mention even sensitive issues, such as domestic abuse, abortion or past drug use. Remember, the information you share will help your health care provider take the best care of you — and your baby.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-li...e/art-20044882

The article continues to use the term 'baby' and not 'fetus' and it is written by medical professionals. Why is the term 'baby' chosen vs 'fetus'. Quite simple, baby has a different connotation attached to it and thus when we are talking about a wanted 'fetus' we use the term 'baby'. I hate to burst your bubble, but using 'baby' is perfectly valid and is used by medical professionals too. The only time I ever hear the term 'fetus' used is to remove the human connotations and try to attach a non human connotation to what abortion truly is or in school to talk about different stages of animal development. This isn't a classroom and we are not discussing the stages of animal development. Likewise, I do not let pro abortionist control the language. I know you want to control it, but you can't. Now go ahead, please write these good doctors and let them know they are using improper terms. I'd love to hear their response.

Abortion destroys a human life. No one can legitimately argue otherwise. The question is whether abortion destroys a human person, one that has a certain set of fundamental or legal rights. You're conflating terms that, by now, no person who's been on TWeb for over a year should be conflating.

Sorry Sam, but you're wrong and very wrong at that. See, the personhood argument is just a farce to remove the human element from what you are doing. Interesting enough, all genocidal manics love removing humanity from what they are doing. Jews are non persons and you can do with them what you please. See how easy it is to justify mass murder, by calling what you are doing something else? I know you want to control the language, but I will not let you control the language. Trying to use 'person-hood' argument is your way of hiding the reality of what you are doing; ending the life of a human for the awful crime of daring to exist and trying to hide your crime behind words and phrases.

[Papa Zoom]

If you hear the term "fetus" in biology or health class (or in the medical community at large) then you've got a good lead in understanding why that's the term used when discussing the topic of abortion, which deals specifically with biology, health, and medical practice.

Abortion destroys a human life. No one can legitimately argue otherwise. The question is whether abortion destroys a human person, one that has a certain set of fundamental or legal rights. You're conflating terms that, by now, no person who's been on TWeb for over a year should be conflating.

I've never been clear on how we determine objectively when "person-hood" arives.

[RumTumTugger]

If you hear the term "fetus" in biology or health class (or in the medical community at large) then you've got a good lead in understanding why that's the term used when discussing the topic of abortion, which deals specifically with biology, health, and medical practice.

if you believe that sam I have some land in Florida to sell you.

Abortion destroys a human life. No one can legitimately argue otherwise. The question is whether abortion destroys a human person, one that has a certain set of fundamental or legal rights. You're conflating terms that, by now, no person who's been on TWeb for over a year should be conflating.

use of a false dichotomy noted here

noun per·son \ˈpər-sən\

: a human being

: a person who likes or enjoys something specified

law : the body or clothing of a person especially when considered as a place to hide things
Full Definition of PERSON
1
: human, individual —sometimes used in combination especially by those who prefer to avoid man in compounds applicable to both sexes <chairperson> <spokesperson>
2
: a character or part in or as if in a play : guise
3
a : one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians
b : the unitary personality of Christ that unites the divine and human natures
4
a archaic : bodily appearance
b : the body of a human being; also : the body and clothing <unlawful search of the person>
5
: the personality of a human being : self
6
: one (as a human being, a partnership, or a corporation) that is recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties

NOTE the first definition Sam you are a person because you are a human being not because someone arbitrarily decides you are one.

[Papa Zoom]

Indeed. I find it interesting that I had a 'baby shower' and not a 'fetus shower' because I was carrying around a wanted children, but when the child is unwanted; all humanity must be stripped and thus the pro abortionist usage of cold medical terms to avoid any attachment to humanity. See, the pro abortionist wants control of the language because if you can control the language; you can control the perceptions. I don't let them control the language; they are not 'pro choice' as they are 'pro abortion.' Likewise, they are not killing a clump of cells because they are actually killing a baby. If you can control the language, you can control the narrative, so don't let them control the language.

This little tyke was born @ 24 weeks. This is what a fetus looks like I guess. CKtudwgWIAEMtoU.jpg

I know, there are health risks. But if that's an excuse to kill the unborn, what about people born with health risks? There is no reason to kill an unborn human being. (possible exception might be the mother's life but that is so rare it's nearly zero).

[Sam]

Sorry Sam, but it is quite true because there is only two cases that I ever heard proper medical terms used to refer to the unborn. In a biology or heath courses or among pro abortionist when they are trying to justify their killing. If that is incorrect Sam, by all means, please explain why an abortion is not killing of a human life and what is being killed instead. I'll be waiting for your explanation.

If you hear the term "fetus" in biology or health class (or in the medical community at large) then you've got a good lead in understanding why that's the term used when discussing the topic of abortion, which deals specifically with biology, health, and medical practice.

Abortion destroys a human life. No one can legitimately argue otherwise. The question is whether abortion destroys a human person, one that has a certain set of fundamental or legal rights. You're conflating terms that, by now, no person who's been on TWeb for over a year should be conflating.

[lilpixieofterror]

Mine was separating two unlike terms that have been colloquially conflated, leading to an ambiguity between what should be a technical term. Yours is useful only insofar as one allows the unspoken accusation that others are using the technical term solely to avoid a negative emotion — implicitly accusing them of knowing that we're all talking about a baby but those monsters insist on calling it a fetus only in order to deprive it of its personhood.

Obviously, that isn't necessarily true so there's no reason to assume someone is using the technical term to avoid a negative connotation.

Sorry Sam, but it is quite true because there is only two cases that I ever heard proper medical terms used to refer to the unborn. In a biology or heath courses or among pro abortionist when they are trying to justify their killing. If that is incorrect Sam, by all means, please explain why an abortion is not killing of a human life and what is being killed instead. I'll be waiting for your explanation.

[Sam]

Another word of the day:

Connotation

Mine was separating two unlike terms that have been colloquially conflated, leading to an ambiguity between what should be a technical term. Yours is useful only insofar as one allows the unspoken accusation that others are using the technical term solely to avoid a negative emotion — implicitly accusing them of knowing that we're all talking about a baby but those monsters insist on calling it a fetus only in order to deprive it of its personhood.

Obviously, that isn't necessarily true so there's no reason to assume someone is using the technical term to avoid a negative connotation.

[lilpixieofterror]

Except that the phrase "Murdering babies" suggests infanticide, not abortion. Purposely using the broader, ambiguous term rather than the narrower one allows cross-concept leakage and creates at best a misleading image, and at worst an outright false one.

Roy

Than by all means, please explain why abortion doesn't kill a human. I'll be waiting.