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New Undercover Video of Planned Parenthood

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  • And now, Attack of the 50 Foot Terrible Argument

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    • Originally posted by Papa Zoom View Post

      https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxu...1&pli=1&hl=en#

      There is money being made on the misery inflicted on the unborn. So much money that abortion really isn't about women's rights at all. There's a bottom line to be had. That's really what many (if not most) in the abortion industry are fighting for. $$
      Thanks for referring me back to your link. The paper is veryyy interesting with regards to how the harvesting of fetus body parts can be monetized. Here are some points that it brings up:

      1. There is an Act that deals with fetal tissue transplantation: The National Institute of Health Revitalization Act in 1993. (Pg 31 of the paper)
      a. There must be informed consent by the woman.
      b. The researcher can't coerce or convince the woman to abort at an optimal time for harvesting.
      c. Financial transactions between the clinic and researcher can't be "above the reasonable payments needed to facilitate the research."
      d. The recipient of the tissue can't be designated.

      So an act has been on the books for over twenty years acknowledging that this is an industry and thus regulating it. The paper also mentioned a couple of other acts that were not as advanced.

      2. Three types of people could gain financially from the market in fetal tissues: the clinic(seller), wholesaler(who harvests the organs or tissues on site), and researcher(buyer). (Pg 33)

      In the paper, they estimate that a wholesaler could gain a monthly profit of $12,000-18,000. "Some sample prices for individual body parts from the above-referenced schedule are as follows: liver $150, pancreas $100, thymus $100, kidney $125, lungs and heart block $150, brain $999, spinal cord $325, bone morrow $350, eyes $75, gonads $550, intact cadaver $400, intact trunk""

      The above law tries to limit it so that the only money changing hands is for operating costs, but obviously people could get around it.

      So we know that there is an industry in these fetal body parts, whether monetarily valuable or not. The question is, are people going beyond the law? Another question is, is it ethical for people to harvest organs or tissues from aborted fetuses?
      sigpic

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      • Originally posted by Papa Zoom View Post
        A couple of thoughts on this conversation. Here you are offering up arguments for your point of view and counter arguments to the pro abortion side and you get called a troll for that? That is not the definition of a troll. It's simply a tactic the left uses when they want to marginalize someone with whom they disagree. It's easier than countering the arguments offered.
        Of course that is because that is all those two have left to run away from what they are mindlessly defending. The truth is that abortion support, across the US, is on the decline as more and more young Americans view the practice as wrong (you wouldn't notice this though, reading the media, since abortion is their sacred cow). There's a reason I call them Dimbulb and Brave Sir Jaecp because it so covers how they act. Dimbulb often tries to back away from his own stupid statements and Brave Sir Jaecp runs away from any argument he can't answer, while claiming he didn't.

        Second, I can't believe I read this: "Trafficking in human body parts is not morally any different to trafficking in rum." For rum you just need the right equipment and ingredients like molasses and yeast among other things. You can buy these at most local grocery stores. You'll need to visit a hardware store too.

        But you won't find any baby parts in a grocery store or in a hardware store. For that, you need a living unborn human being. First you kill it while it's in it's mother's womb. Then you extract the body carefully so as not to "harm" the organs you want to sell. Then you cut up this tiny human being and take out his/her heart, liver, lungs, muscle, and even cut off his/her head as that can be sold too IF the two brain hemispheres are intact.

        Just like making and selling rum.
        Just exposes their true thought process and why I call them pro baby killers. Most normal people would have a pretty strong aversion to chopping people into pieces and selling off their body parts. The fact they don't have an issue with it really shows a rather disturbing mentality.

        Keep up the good fight on this lilpixieofterror. We are on the right side of this issue. And these videos are sparking a nation-wide conversation about the horrors of abortion. The information I've read is that one of the videos to come will show what is done to "harvest" the organs of the babies. PP has gotten ahead of this already and is doing damage control even though the video is not out yet.

        Pictures (and videos) tell the best story. We can ask any magazine about this fact. I applaud the organization that produced these undercover videos for exposing the "stomach turning" horror of abortion and removing the "veil of antiseptic tidiness." Brit Hume's full commentary on this is powerful:

        God bless!
        Oh yeah and their control of the language is slowly slipping. See, to justify murdering babies, you need to change up the language. That is why the label 'pro choice' is chosen vs something like 'pro abortion' because if you can change it from killing babies to just a 'choice' you can avoid the clear applications of what you are doing. Of course, that is just the beginning of their slipping of the control of the language (which video's like this shows what they are truly doing). The chickens are just coming to roost and they really are not liking it one tiny bit, thus Dimbulb, Tazzy Wazzy, and Brave Sir Jaecp trying to label me as a 'troll' vs dealing with the reality of their baby killing beliefs.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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        • Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
          And now, Attack of the 50 Foot Terrible Argument
          Translation: "Crap, I can't answer that because my baby killing beliefs will not allow me to see the immorality of what I'm support, so I'm going to run away and declare victory!"

          And thus why the label 'Brave Sir Jaecp' fits you so well.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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          • Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
            And now, Attack of the 50 Foot Terrible Argument
            Thank you. Taking refuge in ridicule instead of dealing with the substance of a question is always a clear sign of capitulation, tacitly admitting that one is incapable of refuting an opposing thought.
            Last edited by Cale; 07-26-2015, 09:34 PM.

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            • Originally posted by Cale View Post
              Thank you. Taking refuge in ridicule instead of dealing the substance of a question is always a clear sign of capitulation, tacitly admitting that one is incapable of refuting an opposing thought.
              Alternatively, your argument is ridiculous and people have better things to do then unpack someone making an argument about pp and abortion that involves Dred Scott as it's basis.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cale View Post
                Thank you. Taking refuge in ridicule instead of dealing with the substance of a question is always a clear sign of capitulation, tacitly admitting that one is incapable of refuting an opposing thought.
                Welcome to TWeb

                Obviously, your analogy rests on the assumption that the fetuses being aborted count as children. Those who share that idea will naturally see a kinship between the lack of protection for fetuses and the lack of protection for slaves. Just as obviously, those who do not share the idea that fetuses are equivalent to born children will see a massively flawed analogy.

                This is the fault line for virtually all abortion arguments. And folks who would argue for one idea or the other ought to have very clear justifications for that premise.

                But, again, welcome to TWeb. You'll find that relatively few people go through that work so sometimes a snarky or glib response is just the result of having the same overly-simplified arguments pop up again and again and again. You get used to it.
                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

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                • Sam's a nicer guy than me, especially on page 16 of an abortion thread

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                  • Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                    Sam's a nicer guy than me, especially on page 16 of an abortion thread
                    Hey, I just got here. Give it time.
                    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

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                    • Thanks for the welcome!

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                      • Of course the mere facts that the video [a:] is heavily edited and [b]: that the unedited version shows things in a very different light is not terribly important to some.
                        "Obama is not a brown-skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You are thinking of Jesus." Episcopal Bishop of Arizona

                        I remember WinAce. Gone but not forgotten.

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                        • In both cases, unedited videos have been released for anyone who wants to view them. If you're aware of any substantive differences between the full videos and the edited versions, please share them. I'd like to know what you've come up with.
                          Last edited by Cale; 07-27-2015, 12:22 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cale View Post
                            In both cases, unedited videos have been released for anyone who wants to view them. If you're aware of any substantive differences between the full videos and the edited versions, please share them. I'd like to know what you've come up with.
                            I'd like to know as well. I've viewed the videos and read the transcripts. I see no discrepancies.
                            Faith is not what we fall back to when reason isn't available. It's the conviction of what we have reason to believe. Greg Koukl

                            The loss of objectivity in moral thought does not lead to liberation. It leads to oppression. Secular ideologies preach liberty, but they practice tyranny. Nancy Pearcey

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                            • Is this really so hard?

                              In the edit'd videos, bits of content are left out to give the impression that something other than what is actually occurring is occurring. It's an attempt to make it look like PP is trying to profit from the sale of fetal tissues, which in the context of the longer video is obviously not the case. How many instances of each doctor telling the fake biotech employees no were cut? How many instance of correcting them on the laws, saying that something would be illegal, or indicating that they were joking was cut?

                              Answer: A lot

                              I get that all the Christians here (and whag) dislike abortion, but try to keep your head on a swivel folks. When groups like CMP or LA release edited videos to drum up outrage and then an unedited video later its to give plausible deniability and to get a bunch of people watching the short one, sharing the short one. Most people won't watch the long one (who has the time?) and CMP/LA are well aware of this. The short versions of these videos are maliciously edited because there is no proof of wrongdoing (otherwise they could have just shown proof of criminal activity to a sympathetic DA and done just as much, if not more, damage with the added perk of a lawsuit!)

                              tl;dr

                              The short versions of these videos give the false impression that something illegal happened

                              The long versions of these videos give no impression that something illegal happened

                              It's not like this is the first time videos like these have come up. PP has been targeted like this on at least a half dozen occasions I can think of. There never seems to be any hard evidence, just some shock and awe while people try to discredit the organization with non-sense because attacking abortion directly is too damn difficult

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Jaecp View Post
                                attacking abortion directly is too damn difficult
                                ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

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