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Now’s the Time To End Tax Exemptions for Religious Institutions - Mark Openheimer

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
    To what threat are you referring? The proposal in the article from the OP certainly doesn't advocate any such thing.
    In the quoted text of the OP "Rather than try to rescue tax-exempt status for organizations that dissent from settled public policy on matters of race or sexuality, we need to take a more radical step. It’s time to abolish, or greatly diminish, their tax-exempt statuses."

    It is saying to threaten those that don't comply.

    Oh and I apologize to Leonhard. I was reading this at work and didn't really pay attention. I was under the impression he was endorsing this view, not just reporting it. Sorry Leon.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
      Leon was sharing the article, not endorsing its arguments.
      Yeah I apologized to him in my last post. My mind was wandering and I got the wrong impression.

      Comment


      • #33
        My understanding is that without tax exemption, an organization would have to pay taxes only on its income minus its outlays. So it seems a non-exempt organization could avoid paying taxes by spending all it receives.

        There may be some exceptions to that, and I'm not an expert. Like, if the organization gives directly to the poor, does the tax law consider that an expense, reducing their "profit"?
        If not, then eliminating tax exemption would distort incentives. It would dis-incentivize charitable giving and incentivize increasing other expenses.


        The other effect, of course, would be that people donating to a church would no longer be able to deduct that on their own taxes, which could reduce the amount people give to churches.

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        • #34
          Churches could still organize as 501c3s.

          We would just actually want them to show they were doing that instead of the current system

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Joel View Post
            The other effect, of course, would be that people donating to a church would no longer be able to deduct that on their own taxes, which could reduce the amount people give to churches.
            Then they're obviously giving for the wrong reason.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Then they're obviously giving for the wrong reason.
              I know others on here have disagreed with me (JP Holding in particular) but I really do think that Jesus's command not to let others know what you are giving should come into account here. But I understand that pledges tell churches what they can expect so I'm okay with at least pledging with people's names on them.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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              • #37
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                I know others on here have disagreed with me (JP Holding in particular) but I really do think that Jesus's command not to let others know what you are giving should come into account here.
                Scripture, please?

                But I understand that pledges tell churches what they can expect so I'm okay with at least pledging with people's names on them.
                My wife tells of the time her mother received a visit from their Lutheran pastor telling her what the Church expected them to pledge, because he knew what a foreman at BF Goodrich earned, and did the math. According to her, the Lutheran Pastor was quite adamant that she sign the pledge because they were going into a new building program.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Scripture, please?



                  My wife tells of the time her mother received a visit from their Lutheran pastor telling her what the Church expected them to pledge, because he knew what a foreman at BF Goodrich earned, and did the math. According to her, the Lutheran Pastor was quite adamant that she sign the pledge because they were going into a new building program.
                  I have Matthew 6:3-4 in mind. I tend to take it much more literally than most people do, just to be upfront.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    I have Matthew 6:3-4 in mind. I tend to take it much more literally than most people do, just to be upfront.
                    OK, thought so. Yet, I think about Jesus sitting down and watching people put money in the collection box.

                    Mark 12:41-44English Standard Version (ESV)
                    The Widow's Offering
                    41 And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny.[a] 43 And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. 44 For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”


                    I think the intent of the "secrecy" is not so much that the Church can't know, but that you don't go around bragging about how much you give.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Then they're obviously giving for the wrong reason.
                      It would be a pity to not be able to deduct what we give, but that would not stop me. And I believe that would apply to almost all Christians.
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        No it's not. The power to tax is the power to destroy or the power to control. Which is exactly what you leftists want.
                        Yeah, leftists like James Madison, the main architect of the Constitution, who, to paraphrase, said no citizen should be compelled by the state to contribute even one cent to support a church. Yet that is what we are compelled to do by subsidizing them with our tax dollars.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Joel View Post
                          My understanding is that without tax exemption, an organization would have to pay taxes only on its income minus its outlays. So it seems a non-exempt organization could avoid paying taxes by spending all it receives.
                          It also makes it durn near impossible for a church to save money for larger projects.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            Yeah, leftists like James Madison, the main architect of the Constitution, who, to paraphrase, said no citizen should be compelled by the state to contribute even one cent to support a church. Yet that is what we are compelled to do by subsidizing them with our tax dollars.
                            Assuming, of course, that you actually pay taxes.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              Yeah, leftists like James Madison, the main architect of the Constitution, who, to paraphrase, said no citizen should be compelled by the state to contribute even one cent to support a church. Yet that is what we are compelled to do by subsidizing them with our tax dollars.
                              uh no. You might want to get a dictionary and look up subsidizing.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                uh no. You might want to get a dictionary and look up subsidizing.
                                Yeah, that, too.... but remember, he's probably in the camp that thinks that a "spending cut" is a huge increase in spending, but slightly less than what was proposed.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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