Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?

[seer]

The difference is how Thomas Jefferson defines 'Nature's God,' which is not the traditional Theist God. Jefferson did not believe in revealed Revelation, and viewed Christ in human philosophical terms. More to follow . . .

So what is your point? No one denies that.

[shunyadragon]

So what is your point? No one denies that.

Theists believe in personal Revelation with Christ as the Son of God. Thomas Jefferson did not believe that, nor did the other Unitarians. Jefferson believe in a 'Nature' God, a Deist Monist God that acts through Nature.

He did believe in a God who Created our existence, but a God like a 'clockmaker,' as described in his own words.

Source: http://history.hanover.edu/hhr/hhr93_1.html

Deism was not actually a formal religion, but rather was a label used loosely to describe certain religious views. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word deist was used negatively during Jefferson's lifetime.[17] The label was often applied to freethinkers like Jefferson as a slander rather than as a precise description. Thus the deist label is not highly specific. Deists were characterized by a belief in God as a creator and "believed only those Christian doctrines that could meet the test of reason."[18] Deists did not believe in miracles, revealed religion, the authority of the clergy, or the divinity of Jesus. Like Jefferson they "regarded ethics, not faith, as the essence of religion."[19]

"Nature's God" was clearly the God of deism in all important ways. That Jefferson included God in the "Declaration of Independence" is very significant because it helped lay the foundation for a civil religion in America. Paul Johnson addressed the civil religion begun by the founders in his article, "The Almost-Chosen People,"[20] saying that the United States was unique because all religious beliefs were respected. People were more concerned with "moral conduct rather than dogma." So Jefferson helped create a society in which different religions could coexist peacefully because of the emphasis on morality over specific belief.

© Copyright Original Source

[shunyadragon]

The complete paragraphs of the letter form Jefferson to Adams dated August 22, 1813. It is clear in this letter Jefferson proclaims his belief in Deism. The sensitivity of his beliefs in public led him to confide in Adams privately in a way he was reluctant to do so in public, because of the general hostility among Christians towards Deism.

Source: http://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/03-06-02-0351

Very soon after my letter to Doctr Priestley, the subject being still in my mind, I had leisure, during an abstraction from business, for a day or two while on the road, to think a little more on it, and to sketch more fully than I had done to him, a Syllabus of the matter which I thought should enter into the work. I wrote it to Dr Rush; and there ended all my labor on the subject; himself & Dr Priestley being the only depositories of my secret. the fate of my letter to Priestley, after his death, was a warning to me on that of Dr Rush; and at my request his family was so kind as to quiet me by returning my original letter & Syllabus. by this you will be sensible how much interest I take in keeping myself clear of religious disputes before the public; and especially of seeing my Syllabus disembowelled by the Aruspices of the modern Paganism. yet I inclose it to you with entire confidence, free to be perused by yourself and mrs Adams, but by no one else; and to be returned to me.

You are right in supposing, in one of yours, that I had not read much of Priestley’s Predestination, his No-soul system, or his controversy with Horsley. but I have read his Corruptions of Christianity, & Early opinions of Jesus, over and over again; and I rest on them, and on Middleton’s writings, especially his letters from Rome, and to Waterland, as the basis of my own faith. these writings have never been answered, nor can be answered, by quoting historical proofs, as they have done. for these facts therefore I cling to their learning, so much superior to my own.

© Copyright Original Source

[seer]

The complete paragraphs of the letter form Jefferson to Adams dated August 22, 1813. It is clear in this letter Jefferson proclaims his belief in Deism. The sensitivity of his beliefs in public led him to confide in Adams privately in a way he was reluctant to do so in public, because of the general hostility among Christians towards Deism.

Source: http://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/03-06-02-0351

Very soon after my letter to Doctr Priestley, the subject being still in my mind, I had leisure, during an abstraction from business, for a day or two while on the road, to think a little more on it, and to sketch more fully than I had done to him, a Syllabus of the matter which I thought should enter into the work. I wrote it to Dr Rush; and there ended all my labor on the subject; himself & Dr Priestley being the only depositories of my secret. the fate of my letter to Priestley, after his death, was a warning to me on that of Dr Rush; and at my request his family was so kind as to quiet me by returning my original letter & Syllabus. by this you will be sensible how much interest I take in keeping myself clear of religious disputes before the public; and especially of seeing my Syllabus disembowelled by the Aruspices of the modern Paganism. yet I inclose it to you with entire confidence, free to be perused by yourself and mrs Adams, but by no one else; and to be returned to me.

You are right in supposing, in one of yours, that I had not read much of Priestley’s Predestination, his No-soul system, or his controversy with Horsley. but I have read his Corruptions of Christianity, & Early opinions of Jesus, over and over again; and I rest on them, and on Middleton’s writings, especially his letters from Rome, and to Waterland, as the basis of my own faith. these writings have never been answered, nor can be answered, by quoting historical proofs, as they have done. for these facts therefore I cling to their learning, so much superior to my own.

© Copyright Original Source

What? Where did he claim to be a Deist?

[KingsGambit]

However he considered himself, it is clear that he was not a "Christian" as we on TWeb would consider the term. I am less interested in the specifics of how we would specifically identify him beyond that.

[seer]

Theists believe in personal Revelation with Christ as the Son of God. Thomas Jefferson did not believe that, nor did the other Unitarians. Jefferson believe in a 'Nature' God, a Deist Monist God that acts through Nature.

He did believe in a God who Created our existence, but a God like a 'clockmaker,' as described in his own words.

1. That is silly, not all theists are Christian Shuny.

2. Adam's was a Unitarian and he believed in that much of Scripture was revelatory, and he believe in miracles.

And from your own web link:http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/jefferson_deist.htm

For the full text see Existence of Deity/God by Thomas Jefferson

This was written in 1823 to John Adams a year before their deaths on July 4, 1824. This is Nature's God Jefferson wrote about in the Declaration of Independence. Indeed he is correct and rejected by name Spinoza (pantheist not a Deist), Diderot (French deistic atheist) and D'Holbach (atheist) often claimed as "deists" by so many "deism" websites. Jefferson and Adams obviously believe in an active, but non-controlling God, not what passes for the dictionary definition of Deism today.

Here he not only supported intelligent design, but an ongoing and continuous process. The origin of the term "Nature's God" wasn't invented by Jefferson either, but from Blackstone's Commentaries on the Law. Blackstone's was the main textbook for Law Schools in America until 1920 and Jefferson was a lawyer.

As a final note Nature and Nature's God was not the God of the deists but was taken from Blackstone's Commentaries on the Law. Blackstone's was the main textbook for Law Schools in America until 1920 and Jefferson was a lawyer. To reiterate Nature and Nature's God had nothing to do with Deism as claimed by many "deism" websites. Blackstone was a Christian.

More Christian influence:

Blackstone The Source of Law:http://www.sullivan-county.com/deism/blackstone.htm

While Blackstone was certainly not the first to set forth a concept termed "natural law," his philosophy was distinguishable from others by his identification of the source of natural law. Cicero and Grotius, for instance, believed that the law of nature, which is binding upon all humans just as surely as gravity affects all of nature, is nothing more than the voice of reason. 5 In sharp contrast to this humanistic view of natural law, Blackstone believed that the law of nature is not only binding on all men, but that it is dictated by God Himself.6

These precepts [in the Bible] when revealed, are found upon comparison to be really a part of the original law of nature. . . . But we are not from thence to conclude that the knowledge of these truths was attainable by reason, in its present corrupted state since we find that, until they were revealed, they were hid from the wisdom of the ages.7

Thomas Jefferson reflected Black-stone's view when he used the phrase "law of nature and of nature's God" in the Declaration. This phrase indicates that Jefferson understood the difference between Blackstone's theory and that of Grotius and Cicero. The law of nature refers to the will of God observable in creation while the law of nature's God refers to the divine law which is revealed through the Scriptures.

[seer]

However he considered himself, it is clear that he was not a "Christian" as we on TWeb would consider the term. I am less interested in the specifics of how we would specifically identify him beyond that.

Right he wasn't. But he did use Christian principles.

[shunyadragon]

What? Where did he claim to be a Deist?

He agreed with Priestley, and endorsed his views.

[shunyadragon]

Right he wasn't. But he did use Christian principles.

Deists used Christian principles.

[seer]

He agreed with Priestley, and endorsed his views.

Real thin Shuny, real thin, he says nothing about Deism in that link, he was speaking of Priestley's "Corruptions of Christianity, & Early opinions of Jesus."

[seer]

Deists used Christian principles.

And I already showed from your own link that "nature's God" was not the god of Deism, but in fact the God of Scripture lifted from Blackstone's Commentary.

[shunyadragon]

Real thin Shuny, real thin, he says nothing about Deism in that link, he was speaking of Priestley's "Corruptions of Christianity, & Early opinions of Jesus."

Not real thin at all, Priestley was a friend of Jefferson and a firm open Deist under attack form American churches, and in these books he refers specifically to Deist beliefs as his foundation beliefs. Jefferson acknowledged and endorsed Priestley, and considered Priestley's beliefs his own. Seer these references are very specific and not open to much interpretation.

Deists of the time experienced great hostility from Traditional Christians, and those in the public eye particularly the Founding Fathers had to keep up a public image of support of Traditional Christianity. Jefferson details these problems to John Adams and specifically requests Adams to keep his personal communications concerning his beliefs confidential and private.

[Kristian Joensen]

Shuny, are Judaism and Islam theistic religions?

[shunyadragon]

Shuny, are Judaism and Islam theistic religions?

Yes, in today's religious classifications, but in the writings of Jefferson and other Deists and Unitarians, like Christianity, of the time they believed and described in more humanist Deist Monist terms.

Jefferson, like Priestley, did not believe in Revelation form God.

[seer]

Not real thin at all, Priestley was a friend of Jefferson and a firm open Deist under attack form American churches, and in these books he refers specifically to Deist beliefs as his foundation beliefs. Jefferson acknowledged and endorsed Priestley, and considered Priestley's beliefs his own. Seer these references are very specific and not open to much interpretation.

Deists of the time experienced great hostility from Traditional Christians, and those in the public eye particularly the Founding Fathers had to keep up a public image of support of Traditional Christianity. Jefferson details these problems to John Adams and specifically requests Adams to keep his personal communications concerning his beliefs confidential and private.

No Shuny, you are just seeing what you want to see. Jefferson could as well been speaking of Priestley's Unitarianism (which is mentioned in the letter). But again, Shuny, what really is the difference between Deism and Theism if as Jefferson believed, God acted in human history?