"If you didn't serve..."

[KingsGambit]

I think some of these guys may be whistling past the graveyard, thinking (hoping) something like this (PTSD) would never happen to them, because they're tough.

As a young police officer, I dealt with some WWII vets who had "shell shock". I can tell you, they weren't playing. Whatever it was, it was real to them.

I think one of the problems here is the "me too" mentality -- somebody is diagnosed with PTSD because they were in a high conflict combat area, and somebody else who had some discomfort claims the same thing. So, because we have a bunch of people claiming PTSD, it really minimizes the importance we place on those who are really suffering.

I'm sure some of you have seen the signs that say something like "Combat Vet lives in this area - please consider this when deploying fireworks".

Those signs are what these people are complaining about.

[Cow Poke]

Those signs are what these people are complaining about.

I kinda figgered. If I knew who it was, I'd try to talk to them about how I could help.

[Juvenal]

He says he can handle it, because he knows exactly when the boom is going to happen, and because he's in charge, he knows he can stop it if he needs to.

Sounds like the conversation I had an hour ago with the marine. So long as one us us is setting them off, it's all okay. Everything else sounds like "incoming."

[Cow Poke]

Sounds like the conversation I had an hour ago with the marine. So long as one us us is setting them off, it's all okay. Everything else sounds like "incoming."

Yeah, there's a big difference between knowing when and why a loud noise is about to happen and being constantly on the alert for one you know has got to be coming, but you have no idea when.

[Catholicity]

I think part of it is that more people are becoming more aware of PTSD. Is it fair to say no fireworks please? No not really, its more considerate since we are aware, to go buy a pair of sound proof headphones for neighbors or buy them yourself. However right now its 11:07 and my kids are sleeping and I wonder how necessary it is to set of firecrackers and M-80s and bottle rockets in a neighborhood the size of ours (.5 miles and our lawns are roughly .25 acres if you have a duplex or the size of a patio home.)

[Teallaura]

To be fair, Zamperini's problems came from being a prisoner of war - largely. And the fact is most combat vets do just fine and do look at, rightly or wrongly, PTSD, as a weakness.

Which may well be why they need non-veterans to confront them. Honestly, they seem to be the other face of the same problem - the very ones tormenting their 'weaker' brethren are quite probably displaying the very condition they are ridiculing. Their ridicule isn't mere bullying - it's a symptom. Arguably, they, not the one's admitting the problem - are the weaker. It's probably a coping mechanism - specifically, part of their own denial that makes them attack.

Whether it is shell shock, battle fatigue, PTSD or whatever name it's given next, the source may be unique to veterans - but the symptoms are not so incomprehensible to the rest of us. That kind of animalistic attack on the weak isn't peculiar to the services - but it is pretty typical of hurt males. Men* react to pain with aggression - anything to keep from seeming weak. 'Eating' the weak is one way to do that. Not a good one and certainly not one that will actually work in the long run - but hurt people don't think that rationally, male or female.

So, no, standing by while servicemen rip each other to bits isn't a kindness - or respect - to either group.











*Yeah, it's a generalization and no, not all men are the same. But enough are that the milestone is useful.

[seer]

Which may well be why they need non-veterans to confront them. Honestly, they seem to be the other face of the same problem - the very ones tormenting their 'weaker' brethren are quite probably displaying the very condition they are ridiculing. Their ridicule isn't mere bullying - it's a symptom. Arguably, they, not the one's admitting the problem - are the weaker. It's probably a coping mechanism - specifically, part of their own denial that makes them attack.

No, I don't think they are displaying the same condition, perhaps they are fearful that they may in the future. And this is some kind of twisted defense mechanism? And let's be honest - not all combat vets experience PTSD - so those who don't my not be able to understand. There is however no reason to attack those who do.

[heartablaze]

I think part of it is that more people are becoming more aware of PTSD. Is it fair to say no fireworks please? No not really, its more considerate since we are aware, to go buy a pair of sound proof headphones for neighbors or buy them yourself. However right now its 11:07 and my kids are sleeping and I wonder how necessary it is to set of firecrackers and M-80s and bottle rockets in a neighborhood the size of ours (.5 miles and our lawns are roughly .25 acres if you have a duplex or the size of a patio home.)

I agree when it comes to a holiday where fireworks is as central as it is to Independence Day. Find a quiet place or get sound proof headphones for yourself.

[Adrift]

As most of you know I enlisted in the Marine Corps during the Vietnam war. Even though I wasn't "in country" I had a lot of good friends that were. The problem is, you are speaking of a warrior culture where you are trained to just suck it up. I grew up in a neighborhood that was populated with WW2 combat Vets. Yes they had the bad dreams, loud noises may have made them flinch and they did, sometimes, drink to much. But basically they handled it and and led good, productive lives. The fact is I know a lot of combat vets from WW2 up to the present who see this whole PTSD thing as over kill (pardon the pun).

You know, what's interesting about that is that the further back in history you go, the less PTSD seems like a problem for the average soldier. There were the occasional examples in ancient writings, but when the question was put to the guys at Reddit's "Ask Historians" sub-forum, the top response by a guy who was actually writing about the subject for his Master's thesis included the following paragraph:

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1j6ssm/are_there_any_indications_of_combat_ptsd_in/

When it comes to Roman soldiers, the violence of warfare was not such a problem as it might be to an American soldier. This was due to many reasons, not the least of which were desensitization (death was not uncommon nor unseen in the ancient world), the reward system of the Roman military (which encouraged excessive, even suicidal, violence), and the lack of any inherent moral contradiction in warfare. A modern soldier going to war must, to more or less of an extent, overcome the strictures society has put on him/her saying "it is wrong to kill." A Roman soldier had much fewer scruples. This is not to say that they were not afraid of death in battle (this is well-attested to), but rather that personal guilt or shame generated by the act of killing another human being was highly dependent on the circumstance of the kill. As a Roman soldier, your duty was to kill and route the enemy- no ifs, ands, or buts. As a result, we usually only see instances in which Roman soldiers end up killing their own comrades, or even family members[4] , as having a particularly traumatic aura about them. For this very reason almost all the literature which appears to describe PTSD in the Roman military occurs in the context of civil war or mutiny.

© Copyright Original Source

Later he says that an event that would cause actual trauma for a Roman soldier would be public shame (which is something most of us are aware of here...the ancient-East/shame vs. modern-West/guilt paradigms).

Anyways, probably not really related to the OP, but I thought it was interesting since it's a subject I've been curious about.