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The Oklahoma Supreme Court rules against 10 Commndment monument

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  • The Oklahoma Supreme Court rules against 10 Commndment monument

    Source: http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/oklahoma-supreme-court-orders-removal/index.html

    The Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that the state must remove a 6-foot tall granite monument of the Ten Commandments from its capitol because it violates the state's constitutional ban against the use of public funds or property to benefit a religion.

    © Copyright Original Source

    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

  • #2
    The Purge continues.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #3
      How is the Oklahoma situation different from the Texas situation, which SCOTUS has upheld?

      Defenders of the statue have argued that the commandments were placed on the capitol grounds as “historical context,” given the influence the Ten Commandments had on the formation of American law. They also argued that it was similar to a Ten Commandments statue in Texas whose legality was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        How is the Oklahoma situation different from the Texas situation, which SCOTUS has upheld?

        Defenders of the statue have argued that the commandments were placed on the capitol grounds as “historical context,” given the influence the Ten Commandments had on the formation of American law. They also argued that it was similar to a Ten Commandments statue in Texas whose legality was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court.
        Does Texas have a State Constitutional ban similar to Oklahoma's? AFAICT, it was the State Constitution that was upheld...
        "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

        "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
          Does Texas have a State Constitutional ban similar to Oklahoma's? AFAICT, it was the State Constitution that was upheld...
          Ah, ok!
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            Which is one more reason I DON"T live in Oklahoma...
            "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

            "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              The Purge continues.
              And so it should. No religion should get preferential treatment, especially at state expense.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                Source: http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/oklahoma-supreme-court-orders-removal/index.html

                The Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that the state must remove a 6-foot tall granite monument of the Ten Commandments from its capitol because it violates the state's constitutional ban against the use of public funds or property to benefit a religion.

                © Copyright Original Source

                Yes, by a whopping 7-2 margin. The state Supreme Court took just a few paragraphs to rule that the monument has got to go because it violates Article 2, Section 5 of the state constitution. So why the outrage...are believers exempt from the law?

                https://richarddawkins.net/2015/07/o...-commandments/
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  And so it should. No religion should get preferential treatment, especially at state expense.
                  You may get what you want, but eventually will not want what you got.
                  Last edited by Cow Poke; 07-10-2015, 05:18 PM.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    You may get what you want, but eventually will not what what you got.
                    Except Tassy does not live in the US so it won't hurt him when we go under.
                    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                      Except Tassy does not live in the US so it won't hurt him when we go under.
                      Then who will help them when the Chinese come marching in? Like the Japanese wanted to. Oh wait - the Chinese are Communists - Tass will fit right in. Commissar Tassman, has a nice ring...
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Then who will help them when the Chinese come marching in? Like the Japanese wanted to. Oh wait - the Chinese are Communists - Tass will fit right in. Commissar Tassman, has a nice ring...
                        What does this have to do with the removal of a religious symbol from US state property? Answer: Nothing!

                        The state Supreme Court recognised by a 7-2 margin that the monument had got to go because it violated Article 2, Section 5 of the State Constitution. So, are believers above the law in your view? Do you, in the secular state of the USA, demand special treatment as a Christian to which you're not entitled?

                        “The legislature of the United States shall pass no law on the subject of religion.” ~Founding Father Charles Pinckney, Constitutional Convention, 1787. Hence a Judeo/Christian monument on the lawns of the State Capitol that gives a contrary message to this principle must go... as the court recognised.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tassman View Post

                          “The legislature of the United States shall pass no law on the subject of religion.” ~Founding Father Charles Pinckney, Constitutional Convention, 1787. Hence a Judeo/Christian monument on the lawns of the State Capitol that gives a contrary message to this principle must go... as the court recognised.
                          Well well yes, but...

                          Morality in the Army

                          Congress was apprehensive about the moral condition of the American army and navy and took steps to see that Christian morality prevailed in both organizations. In the Articles of War, seen below, governing the conduct of the Continental Army (seen above) (adopted, June 30, 1775; revised, September 20, 1776), Congress devoted three of the four articles in the first section to the religious nurture of the troops. Article 2 "earnestly recommended to all officers and soldiers to attend divine services." Punishment was prescribed for those who behaved "indecently or irreverently" in churches, including courts-martial, fines and imprisonments. Chaplains who deserted their troops were to be court-martialed.

                          Morality in the Navy

                          Congress particularly feared the navy as a source of moral corruption and demanded that skippers of American ships make their men behave. The first article in Rules and Regulations of the Navy (below), adopted on November 28, 1775, ordered all commanders "to be very vigilant . . . to discountenance and suppress all dissolute, immoral and disorderly practices." The second article required those same commanders "to take care, that divine services be performed twice a day on board, and a sermon preached on Sundays." Article 3 prescribed punishments for swearers and blasphemers: officers were to be fined and common sailors were to be forced "to wear a wooden collar or some other shameful badge of distinction."

                          Aitken's Bible Endorsed by Congress

                          The war with Britain cut off the supply of Bibles to the United States with the result that on Sept. 11, 1777, Congress instructed its Committee of Commerce to import 20,000 Bibles from "Scotland, Holland or elsewhere." On January 21, 1781, Philadelphia printer Robert Aitken (1734-1802) petitioned Congress to officially sanction a publication of the Old and New Testament which he was preparing at his own expense. Congress "highly approve the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken, as subservient to the interest of religion . . . in this country, and . . . they recommend this edition of the bible to the inhabitants of the United States." This resolution was a result of Aitken's successful accomplishment of his project.

                          Aitken published Congress's recommendation of September 1782 and related documents (Item 115) as an imprimatur on the two pages following his title page. Aitken's Bible, published under Congressional patronage, was the first English language Bible published on the North American continent.

                          Northwest Ordinance

                          In the summer of 1787 Congress revisited the issue of religion in the new western territories and passed, July 13, 1787, the famous Northwest Ordinance. Article 3 of the Ordinance contained the following language: "Religion, Morality and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, Schools and the means of education shall be forever encouraged." Scholars have been puzzled that, having declared religion and morality indispensable to good government, Congress did not, like some of the state governments that had written similar declarations into their constitutions, give financial assistance to the churches in the West.

                          Christianizing the Delawares

                          In this resolution, Congress makes public lands available to a group for religious purposes. Responding to a plea from Bishop John Ettwein (1721-1802), Congress voted that 10,000 acres on the Muskingum River in the present state of Ohio "be set apart and the property thereof be vested in the Moravian Brethren . . . or a society of the said Brethren for civilizing the Indians and promoting Christianity." The Delaware Indians were the intended beneficiaries of this Congressional resolution.
                          http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel04.html


                          Congregationalists and Anglicans who, before 1776, had received public financial support, called their state benefactors "nursing fathers" (Isaiah 49:23). After independence they urged the state governments, as "nursing fathers," to continue succoring them. Knowing that in the egalitarian, post-independence era, the public would no longer permit single denominations to monopolize state support, legislators devised "general assessment schemes." Religious taxes were laid on all citizens, each of whom was given the option of designating his share to the church of his choice. Such laws took effect in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Hampshire and were passed but not implemented in Maryland and Georgia.
                          http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel05.html

                          BTW Tass, you don't want to get into a quote war with me on this, I know way more about this subject than you.
                          Last edited by seer; 07-05-2015, 02:20 PM.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            How is the Oklahoma situation different from the Texas situation, which SCOTUS has upheld?

                            Defenders of the statue have argued that the commandments were placed on the capitol grounds as “historical context,” given the influence the Ten Commandments had on the formation of American law. They also argued that it was similar to a Ten Commandments statue in Texas whose legality was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court.
                            I argue that the "historical context" of our American Law has a broader source of influences then the 'Ten Commandments.' The influence is older and broader including Vedic origins, pre-Babylonian, Babylonian, European Celtic, Greek and Roman sources. There is even Native American Influence at the time of our writing of the Constitution.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              I argue that the "historical context" of our American Law has a broader source of influences then the 'Ten Commandments.' The influence is older and broader including Vedic origins, pre-Babylonian, Babylonian, European Celtic, Greek and Roman sources. There is even Native American Influence at the time of our writing of the Constitution.
                              LittleJoe had a much better answer.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment

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