Originally posted by shunyadragon
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
The Oklahoma Supreme Court rules against 10 Commndment monument
Collapse
X
-
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
-
Originally posted by seer View PostYou just ignore my links and quotes, pout and stamp your feet. Tell me Shuny, why did all the first presidents, and founding fathers, swear their oaths of office on the Christian Bible. Why not the Koran?
Or a copy of the Code of Hammurabi? Because, the bible had a special place in our history and national discourse that these others did not enjoy. Period. Anyway I tried, you have not changed so you are back on ignore - carry on...Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostThere are no "buts". The US Constitution is a secular document. It was based upon English Common Law which derived from the Saxon settlement of England some two centuries before England became a Christian nation.About a fifth of the law code is taken up by Alfred's introduction, which includes translations into English of the Decalogue, a few chapters from the Book of Exodus, and the "Apostolic Letter" from Acts of the Apostles
Most of Alfred's "Doom book" was an amalgamation of codes of law from previous Saxon kingdoms, including that of Ethelbert of Kent who preceded Alfred by a couple of centuries, and whose law was based on a series of monetary fines for various transgressions.
RoyJorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostThat is utter nonsense, as seer's own source shows: "a fifth" is not "most".
About a fifth of the law code is taken up by Alfred's introduction, which includes translations into English of the Decalogue, a few chapters from the Book of Exodus, and the "Apostolic Letter" from Acts of the Apostles (15:23–29). The Introduction may best be understood as Alfred's meditation upon the meaning of Christian law.[66] It traces the continuity between God's gift of Law to Moses to Alfred's own issuance of law to the West Saxon people. By doing so, it links the holy past to the historical present and represents Alfred's law-giving as a type of divine legislation.[67]
This is the reason that Alfred divided his code into precisely 120 chapters: 120 was the age at which Moses died and, in the number-symbolism of early medieval biblical exegetes, 120 stood for law.[68] The link between the Mosaic Law and Alfred's code is the "Apostolic Letter," which explained that Christ "had come not to shatter or annul the commandments but to fulfill them; and he taught mercy and meekness" (Intro, 49.1). The mercy that Christ infused into Mosaic Law underlies the injury tariffs that figure so prominently in barbarian law codes, since Christian synods "established, through that mercy which Christ taught, that for almost every misdeed at the first offence secular lords might with their permission receive without sin the monetary compensation, which they then fixed."[69]
The Doom Book, Code of Alfred or Legal Code of Ælfred the Great was the code of laws ("dooms", laws or judgments) compiled by Alfred the Great (c. 893 AD) from three prior Saxon codes, to which he prefixed the Ten Commandments of Moses and incorporated rules of life from the Mosaic Code and the Christian code of ethics
Most of Alfred's "Doom book" was an amalgamation of codes of law from previous Saxon kingdoms, including that of Ethelbert of Kent who preceded Alfred by a couple of centuries, and whose law was based on a series of monetary fines for various transgressions.
Roy
F. N. Lee extensively documents Alfred the Great's work of collecting the law codes from the three Christian Saxon kingdoms and compiling them into his Doom Book.[2] Lee details how Alfred incorporated the principles of the Mosaic law into his Code. He then examines how this Code of Alfred became the FOUNDATION for the Common Law. The three previous codes were those of Æthelberht of Kent (c. 602 AD), Ine of Wessex (c. 694 AD) and Offa of Mercia (c. 786 AD).
In his extensive Prologue, Alfred summarized the Mosaic and Christian codes. Michael Treschow reviewed how Alfred laid the foundation for the Spirit of Mercy in his code:[3] Treschow states that the last section of the Prologue not only describes "a tradition of Christian law from which the law code draws but also it grounds secular law upon Scripture, especially upon the principle of mercy".
So to pretend that English Common law, and by extension US law, were not heavily influenced by Biblical law is just nonsense.
Here is one of Lee's papers if any one is interested:http://www.ensignmessage.com/archive...dthegreat.htmlLast edited by seer; 07-06-2015, 01:35 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostSo to pretend that English Common law, and by extension US law, were not heavily influenced by Biblical law is just nonsense.
Seer's actual claim was much, much stronger than English law being 'heavily influenced' by Biblical law:Alfred the Great was called the Father of English Common Law, and he took most of the principles directly from Scripture.
Seer is being deceitful.
RoyJorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View Post
Seer's actual claim was much, much stronger than English law being 'heavily influenced' by Biblical law:That is false. Alfred took most of the principles from the law codes of Saxon kingdoms. Seer's own sources refute him.
F. N. Lee extensively documents Alfred the Great's work of collecting the law codes from the three Christian Saxon kingdoms and compiling them into his Doom Book.
And to quote Lee:
Significantly, the Preface to Alfred's own laws then closes with a very important statement about the provisions of the Christian Common Law of Britain before his own day. Here Alfred recalls especially the Christian laws made by the very first Saxon King in England to become christianized - Ethelbryte, alias the A.D. 540 Aethelberht King of Kent. Alfred then goes on to refer also to the A.D. 688 Wessex laws of the Christian King Ina in the South West of England, and to the A.D. 755 Mercian laws of the Christian King Offa of the Anglo-British Midlands. The latter were Anglo-Brythonic laws doubtless endorsed also by Alfred's Welsh friend Asser, the extremely learned Celto-Brythonic Scholar.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Oklahoma lawmakers file amendment after Ten Commandments ruling
http://kfor.com/2015/07/06/oklahoma-...dments-ruling/That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostOklahoma lawmakers file amendment after Ten Commandments ruling
http://kfor.com/2015/07/06/oklahoma-...dments-ruling/The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostNo-one is pretending any such thing. I agreed that Alfred's introduction was biblically based, and Shuny directly stated "Christianity influenced the development of Common Law and American Law"
Seer's actual claim was much, much stronger than English law being 'heavily influenced' by Biblical law:That is false. Alfred took most of the principles from the law codes of Saxon kingdoms. Seer's own sources refute him.
Seer is being deceitful.
Roy
“In 1824…Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to the English radical Major John Cartwright. The letter became celebrated because of its attack on the doctrine that Christianity was part and parcel of the law of the land. Separationists used the letter, which had been widely republished, to help support Jefferson's doctrine that "a wall of separation" should exist between church and state. Cartwright had reached the conclusion that no foundation existed for the doctrine of the common law's incorporation of Christianity, because he had a theory that the common law had existed before the Anglo-Saxons knew about Christianity. Jefferson sought to extend his argument. . . Jefferson thought the doctrine [that Christianity was part of the Common Law] was a sort of judicial "forgery"; the judges had "stole this law upon us," he said, describing the doctrine as "the most remarkable instance of judicial legislation, that has ever occurred in English jurisprudence or perhaps in any other”.
http://candst.tripod.com/joestor4.htm“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostWell one can always rely on seer for extravagant hyperbole. One simply cannot state without qualification that English law was 'heavily influenced' by Biblical law. The amount of influence Christianity had on Common Law is contentious. Jefferson didn't think it had much influence at all.
http://candst.tripod.com/joestor4.htmAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostYes Tass, and as I have shown we know much more today than they did in Jefferson's day. I presented clear links in my previous posts. Besides Tass, why do you think that all the states had Sabbath laws? Laws against adultery, sodomy, fornication, and even blasphemy laws? They weren't laws against blaspheming Odin. The Christian faith had a special historical place in the founding and development of this nation and should be recognized as such. If even only in a historical context. http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/
Blasphemy against God or Gods has always been a fundamental common law in all cultures. If you Blasphemed Odin in the old days; it was off with your head, burned alive, or maybe divided in four chained to horses was likely the punishment.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostMany of these laws violated the separation of religion and state, and have since been found unconstitutional. The road to the separation of Religion and state has been a slow and sometimes contentious one, but in recent years more successful. Your still living in the past, and ignoring the lessons of modern law in the 'Supreme Court façade.
Blasphemy against God or Gods has always been a fundamental common law in all cultures. If you Blasphemed Odin in the old days; it was off with your head, burned alive, or maybe divided in four chained to horses was likely the punishment.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostOklahoma lawmakers file amendment after Ten Commandments ruling
http://kfor.com/2015/07/06/oklahoma-...dments-ruling/Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI kinda wondered if they'd do that, since the main difference between our "allowed" Ten, and OK's "disallowed" Ten was their own state Constitution.
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) — An Oklahoma Supreme Court ruling that will rid the Capitol grounds of a religious monument has simultaneously scuttled the plans of a group advocating for a Satanic statue there, and they now hope to enshrine the deity outside the Arkansas Statehouse.
The Satanic Temple, which advocates for the separation of church and state, spent more than $100,000 to design and construct an 8½-foot-tall bronze Baphomet, which depicts Satan as a goat-headed figure with horns, hooves, wings and a beard. With Oklahoma justices outlawing a Ten Commandments display from around its Capitol, The Satanic Temple has turned its attention to Arkansas, where lawmakers this year approved a similar Ten Commandments display on public land.
Source = http://news.yahoo.com/satanic-temple...203409173.html"What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
Comment
-
Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostA Satanic group is was hoping to put a Satanic Statue on public grounds before the OK Supreme court decision...now they are looking at Arkansas...
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) — An Oklahoma Supreme Court ruling that will rid the Capitol grounds of a religious monument has simultaneously scuttled the plans of a group advocating for a Satanic statue there, and they now hope to enshrine the deity outside the Arkansas Statehouse.
The Satanic Temple, which advocates for the separation of church and state, spent more than $100,000 to design and construct an 8½-foot-tall bronze Baphomet, which depicts Satan as a goat-headed figure with horns, hooves, wings and a beard. With Oklahoma justices outlawing a Ten Commandments display from around its Capitol, The Satanic Temple has turned its attention to Arkansas, where lawmakers this year approved a similar Ten Commandments display on public land.
Source = http://news.yahoo.com/satanic-temple...203409173.htmlThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostYes, modern liberal courts have found those things to be unconstitutional - the Founders who actually wrote the Constitution did not. Hey, we had Sabbath laws (blue laws) in my state until the early sixties and we did just fine. As did the US in general.
Not the point. The fact that we had Blasphemy laws against the Christian God shows how integral the Christian faith was in the US.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by rogue06, Yesterday, 09:33 AM
|
8 responses
98 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by oxmixmudd
Yesterday, 03:41 PM
|
||
Started by whag, 04-16-2024, 10:43 PM
|
51 responses
294 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seer
Yesterday, 04:42 PM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 04-16-2024, 09:38 AM
|
0 responses
27 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by rogue06
04-16-2024, 09:38 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 04-16-2024, 06:47 AM
|
83 responses
357 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Yesterday, 01:46 PM
|
||
Started by carpedm9587, 04-14-2024, 02:07 PM
|
57 responses
363 views
2 likes
|
Last Post
by oxmixmudd
Yesterday, 07:12 PM
|
Comment