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Why Marriage Will Never Be Enough...

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  • Sparko
    replied
    Walk up to a group of black people, Starlight, and tell them that the "gay struggle" for rights is the same as racial equality and ending slavery.

    You might want to bring your running shoes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    I'm sure a lot of African Americans were thrilled when slavery ended.
    And some were not. Records show that some freed blacks, in their wills, instructed their children to seek out an owner because they were not capable of living on their own.

    Leave a comment:


  • Starlight
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    I have followed this debate for years, and it went like this. All we want (we the gay activists) is the end of sodomy laws. Just get out of our bedrooms. So we (the state) did. Then it was hospital visiting rights for a gay partner (the state granted that). Then there were legal property rights - again granted. Then it was civil unions - widely granted. Now gay marriage - also granted. But will these activists be happy - I doubt it.
    I'm sure a lot of African Americans were thrilled when slavery ended. Then they had to fight hard again against Jim Crow. Then again against desegregation. Each time they claimed back a little more of their humanity and dignity, until they were finally equal (if, indeed, they have actually reached that point... institutionalized racism in Ferguson and elsewhere still seems stacked against them).

    Likewise gay Americans have been granted humanity, dignity, and equality, little by little in a series of victories. The remaining issue is achieving nationwide non-discrimination protections for their employment and business dealings. In 29 States it is legal to fire a person because they are gay. Their employer can simply say "I don't like gay people, and I've heard you're married to someone of the same sex, so you're fired."

    As a Christian I believe that all men have a God given ethical sense, and that gay men and women, know in their more morally sensitive moments, that homosexuality is in fact immoral.
    Sometimes you write the silliest stuff.

    if you can't force a Christian pastor to marry you, then go after the Church's tax except status.
    IMO, it seems unlikely this will happen. My country is about 30 years farther down the track the US is following towards decreasing religious belief (extrapolating from current trends), and Churches here still have tax-exempt status.

    They will never, ever, be happy or content as long as there are others who disagree with their lifestyle.
    Plenty of gay people are happy and content. Studies tend to show that gay couples are slightly more happy than straight couples on average. I've heard a few people suggest that husbands tend to nag less than wives... but maybe it's all that repressed guilt you think they feel that's making them happy?

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Papa Zoom View Post
    I agree. We're only in the middle-game with this issue. We'll see this branch out into other "sexual freedom" demands. An "end-game" is a long way off IMHO.
    This is true, and it will be necessary to marginalize Christians especially:


    Christian Farmers Fined $13,000 for Refusing to Host Same-Sex Wedding Fight Back

    As punishment, the government fined the family $10,000 and ordered them to pay an additional $3,000 to the women. The Giffords were also required to attend staff re-education training classes to teach the state’s viewpoint on marriage. These are the stipulations that the family is challenging with their appeal this week.
    Re-education, just like Mao's China....

    http://dailysignal.com/2015/06/25/ch...g-fights-back/

    Leave a comment:


  • Papa Zoom
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    I have followed this debate for years, and it went like this. All we want (we the gay activists) is the end of sodomy laws. Just get out of our bedrooms. So we (the state) did. Then it was hospital visiting rights for a gay partner (the state granted that). Then there were legal property rights - again granted. Then it was civil unions - widely granted. Now gay marriage - also granted. But will these activists be happy - I doubt it. As a Christian I believe that all men have a God given ethical sense, and that gay men and women, know in their more morally sensitive moments, that homosexuality is in fact immoral. And that gay marriage is a legal fiction. A falsehood. So these activists will remain dissatisfied and must move on to higher ground - across the board acceptance from society. No dissent can be allowed, if you can't force a Christian pastor to marry you, then go after the Church's tax except status.

    Which has already been brought up: http://time.com/3939143/nows-the-tim...-institutions/

    They will never, ever, be happy or content as long as there are others who disagree with their lifestyle. Full acceptance (whether it comes by persuasion or force) is the only thing that can mollify their guilt. But even then...
    I agree. We're only in the middle-game with this issue. We'll see this branch out into other "sexual freedom" demands. An "end-game" is a long way off IMHO.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by jpholding View Post
    It's fair to note that at least Oppenheimer is saying to end tax exempt status for places like Yale University too. That's a good reason why his suggestion will never fly. Another is that groups and people ranging from Dan Barker's FFRF to Al Sharpton to Goodwill will never put up with it. If it ever gets that far, they'll probably simply streamline the definition of a "non-profit" (and it needs to be streamlined anyway, let me tell you) so that things like ideology and religious intent will not come into play.
    Except it will now probably be easier to go after Churches under some kind of discrimination reasoning. Which probably would not apply to a Goodwill or Yale.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpholding
    replied
    It's fair to note that at least Oppenheimer is saying to end tax exempt status for places like Yale University too. That's a good reason why his suggestion will never fly. Another is that groups and people ranging from Dan Barker's FFRF to Al Sharpton to Goodwill will never put up with it. If it ever gets that far, they'll probably simply streamline the definition of a "non-profit" (and it needs to be streamlined anyway, let me tell you) so that things like ideology and religious intent will not come into play.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    started a topic Why Marriage Will Never Be Enough...

    Why Marriage Will Never Be Enough...

    I have followed this debate for years, and it went like this. All we want (we the gay activists) is the end of sodomy laws. Just get out of our bedrooms. So we (the state) did. Then it was hospital visiting rights for a gay partner (the state granted that). Then there were legal property rights - again granted. Then it was civil unions - widely granted. Now gay marriage - also granted. But will these activists be happy - I doubt it. As a Christian I believe that all men have a God given ethical sense, and that gay men and women, know in their more morally sensitive moments, that homosexuality is in fact immoral. And that gay marriage is a legal fiction. A falsehood. So these activists will remain dissatisfied and must move on to higher ground - across the board acceptance from society. No dissent can be allowed, if you can't force a Christian pastor to marry you, then go after the Church's tax except status.

    Which has already been brought up: http://time.com/3939143/nows-the-tim...-institutions/

    They will never, ever, be happy or content as long as there are others who disagree with their lifestyle. Full acceptance (whether it comes by persuasion or force) is the only thing that can mollify their guilt. But even then...

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