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  • #46
    Originally posted by Chrs View Post
    (Aside: in collaborative resources like wikipedia, I'd argue that pages referring to specific pieces of history belonging to minority or otherwise currently/historically oppressed groups would be better done by people of that group.
    Maybe, maybe not. I tend to think that it would merely introduce bias in the opposite direction.
    Wikipedia has a massive race, gender, and... well, everything issue.)
    Yes.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I guess I just don't see why we shouldn't acknowledge and distance ourselves from sins in our own past without trying to maximize them.
      I'm not trying to maximize them. That would be the Al Sharpton approach, or those calling for slave reparations. I get the impression that many seem to be going out of their way to whitewash things that could be acknowledged without causing tangible harm.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        I'm not trying to maximize them. That would be the Al Sharpton approach, or those calling for slave reparations. I get the impression that many seem to be going out of their way to whitewash things that could be acknowledged without causing tangible harm.
        Ah.... well, as Southern Baptists, we have officially (quite some time ago) admitted we screwed up and have since worked hard to make amends. Slavery was bad. Segregation was bad. No excuses, no explanations... bad bad bad.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Ah.... well, as Southern Baptists, we have officially (quite some time ago) admitted we screwed up and have since worked hard to make amends. Slavery was bad. Segregation was bad. No excuses, no explanations... bad bad bad.
          Just to be clear, I think there are lots of people now who are trying to make too big of a deal out of it, of course. I am most concerned right now about what can be done to remove unnecessary stumbling blocks to the gospel. Pulling the Dukes of Hazzard DVDs has nothing to do with that.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            Just to be clear, I think there are lots of people now who are trying to make too big of a deal out of it, of course. I am most concerned right now about what can be done to remove unnecessary stumbling blocks to the gospel.
            I can't do anything global or even national, but I'm sure trying to make an impact in our own community. Our Jobs for Life program, "Car Clinic", Summer JAM program, and a number of other initiatives are all geared to the underprivileged, most of whom, in our community, are black. And SOMEHOW, this allegedly racist old white man seems to get along with them extremely well.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              Just to be clear, I think there are lots of people now who are trying to make too big of a deal out of it, of course. I am most concerned right now about what can be done to remove unnecessary stumbling blocks to the gospel. Pulling the Dukes of Hazzard DVDs has nothing to do with that.
              Exactly.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                We're now up to six church fires in the last week or so. While it's not clear if they're connected... I'd be shocked if most if not at all are.

                http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...t-least-three/
                A corrective. . .
                Source: Michelle Malkin

                America is still reeling from the horrific Charleston, S.C., massacre at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church that claimed the lives of nine innocent people.

                The last thing the community and our country need are hysterical journalists compounding the pain with inflammatory reporting on an unsubstantiated "epidemic" of black church arsons.

                On Monday, a Baltimore Sun lead editorial decried "a series of mysterious fires at African-American churches across the South" in the wake of the Charleston murders. The newspaper cited a "pattern" of attacks, including what it claimed was an "uptick in attacks on 37 black churches in the South" in the 1990s that "prompted President Bill Clinton to set up a church-arson investigative task force."

                The Sun neglected to mention that Clinton had falsely claimed at the time that he had "vivid and painful memories of black churches being burned in my own state when I was a child"— an assertion immediately debunked by the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette.

                The Sun also neglected to mention that the manufactured media coverage that launched the 1990s black church arson juggernaut, fueled by former USA Today reporter Gary Fields' 61 fear-mongering stories, fell apart under scrutiny. Fields' own employer was forced to admit that "analysis of the 64 fires since 1995 shows only four can be conclusively shown to be racially motivated."
                ...
                Buried beneath the sensationalized social media avalanche of panic [this week]: the more judicious and careful observations of Los Angeles Times reporter Matt Pearce that the feds have made no official determinations that any hate crimes have taken place and that "it's unclear whether any of the fires are linked."

                It was observed that "one of the half-dozen church crimes was most likely "accidental" and had "no element of criminal intent."

                Another "was likely touched off by an electrical short" after a tree limb fell on the property, yanking the electrical service line with it.

                And yet another alleged "black church arson" actually involved a white church "struck by lightning."

                © Copyright Original Source



                It seems that race-motivated church arson happens less often than some would have us believe.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  A corrective. . .
                  Source: Michelle Malkin

                  America is still reeling from the horrific Charleston, S.C., massacre at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church that claimed the lives of nine innocent people.

                  The last thing the community and our country need are hysterical journalists compounding the pain with inflammatory reporting on an unsubstantiated "epidemic" of black church arsons.

                  On Monday, a Baltimore Sun lead editorial decried "a series of mysterious fires at African-American churches across the South" in the wake of the Charleston murders. The newspaper cited a "pattern" of attacks, including what it claimed was an "uptick in attacks on 37 black churches in the South" in the 1990s that "prompted President Bill Clinton to set up a church-arson investigative task force."

                  The Sun neglected to mention that Clinton had falsely claimed at the time that he had "vivid and painful memories of black churches being burned in my own state when I was a child"— an assertion immediately debunked by the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette.

                  The Sun also neglected to mention that the manufactured media coverage that launched the 1990s black church arson juggernaut, fueled by former USA Today reporter Gary Fields' 61 fear-mongering stories, fell apart under scrutiny. Fields' own employer was forced to admit that "analysis of the 64 fires since 1995 shows only four can be conclusively shown to be racially motivated."
                  ...
                  Buried beneath the sensationalized social media avalanche of panic [this week]: the more judicious and careful observations of Los Angeles Times reporter Matt Pearce that the feds have made no official determinations that any hate crimes have taken place and that "it's unclear whether any of the fires are linked."

                  It was observed that "one of the half-dozen church crimes was most likely "accidental" and had "no element of criminal intent."

                  Another "was likely touched off by an electrical short" after a tree limb fell on the property, yanking the electrical service line with it.

                  And yet another alleged "black church arson" actually involved a white church "struck by lightning."

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  It seems that race-motivated church arson happens less often than some would have us believe.
                  Where in my OP did I mention race at all?
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    Where in my OP did I mention race at all?
                    Your link at least strongly implies a racial connection.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Your link at least strongly implies a racial connection.
                      Fair enough.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Another interesting statistic, courtesy of today's Washington Post Express. While there have been six (or five, if one of the churches is not actually black) fires at black churches in the past two weeks, on average, there are 34 fires at churches, funeral homes and other religious institutions (intentional or not) in any given week in the US.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Can you say internet meme? Or what used to be called "urban legend" before the advent of social media.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by seanD View Post
                            Can you say internet meme? Or what used to be called "urban legend" before the advent of social media.
                            In several of these, while the investigation is not complete, it appears there was theft, then a fire set to attempt to hide the fact that there was a theft. I'll find the report, but one of these cases, it was a black youth who stole the Church's sound equipment. This has been done before - steal the sound equipment then burn the building. Churches are a particularly vulnerable target for this - particularly those with itinerant or bivocational pastors, because the Church is only occupied on a limited basis, and predictably so.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Attacks on black churches and the burning of black churches are clearly acts of terrorism whether carried out by individuals or groups. This includes the attack on the South Carolina church that killed believers.

                              There are of course, other instances that churches burn for other reasons like any fires, theft, vandalism, lightening and accidents, but enough burnings have been documented as hate crimes and terrorism.
                              Last edited by shunyadragon; 07-03-2015, 07:38 AM.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                Attacks on black churches and the burning of black churches are clearly acts of terrorism whether carried out by individuals or groups. This includes the attack on the South Carolina church that killed believers.
                                Wow, you should prepare a NEWS RELEASE on that! Who knew!!!!!

                                There are of course, other instances that churches burn for other reasons like any fires, theft, vandalism, lightening and accidents, but enough burnings have been documented as hate crimes and terrorism.
                                You're a venerable wealth of Captain Obviousness!
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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