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  • Church arsons

    We're now up to six church fires in the last week or so. While it's not clear if they're connected... I'd be shocked if most if not at all are.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...t-least-three/
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  • #2
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    We're now up to six church fires in the last week or so. While it's not clear if they're connected... I'd be shocked if most if not at all are.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...t-least-three/
    The idea of a conspiracy or the idea of enough people deciding to do this in the absence of any organization... I'm not sure which is scarier.

    In either case this, is apparentlya practice with a long and storied history. You might even call it an American tradition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church...#United_States
    Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
      The idea of a conspiracy or the idea of enough people deciding to do this in the absence of any organization... I'm not sure which is scarier.

      In either case this, is apparentlya practice with a long and storied history. You might even call it an American tradition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church...#United_States
      If you call white supremacy an American tradition, you might.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #4
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        If you call white supremacy an American tradition, you might.
        I'll let you know as soon as I'm entirely convinced it's not
        Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          If you call white supremacy an American tradition, you might.
          I think I'm going to call this an "almostpiphany."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            If you call white supremacy an American tradition, you might.
            How is it not?
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #7
              Way before the internetzweb, a black church in our community burned to the ground. This was back in the late 70's, and there was quite a hysteria over it. Speeches, demonstrations, marches.... and then it all died down quietly and went away when the Fire Marshall - who was black - pointed to a faulty baptistry heater that had been left running all night in preparation for a Sunday morning baptism.

              I'm not disputing AT ALL that these - all of these - may have been acts of racist hate in possible retaliation to the fervor over the removal of the Confederate flag or - who knows what else - but it also reminds me of Clinton's "memory" of black Churches being burned all over Arkansas when he was a youth --- After several Arkansans, including the state historian and leaders of several black organizations, disputed Clinton's "vivid and painful memories" of church burnings in Arkansas, Clinton decided to change his story. He then started talking about black community centers being burned, but he couldn't name any.

              It's a sin problem. And it doesn't help that we can't have a conversation about this without somebody pitching a fit and making accusations and finding racism where it doesn't even exist.

              One of my associate pastors for 10 years was a black pastor, and he and his wife "Momma" would often be in our Sunday Evening service and sing one of the old hymns of their youth. One of my favorites was "I'm free, Praise the Lord, I am free - no longer bound, no more chains holding me...." One Sunday morning, I made a reference to this, and - God forgive me - I referred to it as a "Negro Spiritual". (there was a time when that wasn't a bad thing at ALL ) WOW, did the fecal material come forcefully into contact with the air circulation device! Not from my own people, but word got out that I was saying the "N word" from the pulpit!

              We DO have a race problem, but some of it is that we can't even have a CONVERSATION about it, or refer to GOOD things from the past, without somebody blowing a gasket and citing RACISM!!!!!
              Last edited by Cow Poke; 06-29-2015, 01:27 PM.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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              • #8
                Incidentally.....

                The reason I "ended up with" a black associate pastor is because his own racist congregation fired him.

                He saw a big wooden cross I had built, and put in the front of our auditorium, on which, in a special service, many of us nailed our prayer requests, confessions, or personal thoughts... In short order, this cross was COVERED with notes nailed to it, and Pastor Rufus asked if I could make one for his Church.

                I did, and one Saturday, I stopped by his Church and assembled the cross in his sanctuary. Some of his church members were highly offended that this "white boy" was.... I honestly don't know what they thought I was doing, but they gave him H - E - double hockeysticks over it, and terminated him.

                When he came and told me he had been terminated, I talked to our local Baptist Association, of which I was moderator, and we agreed that I would hire him as my associate pastor, with financial assistance from the association. He was already a beloved brother, and we worked together for the next 10 years, helping him establish a new church in the area. He and "Momma" would do Church on Sunday Mornings at their new location, but usually attended our evening services.

                But I'm a racist because I said "Negro Spiritual".
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Way before the internetzweb, a black church in our community burned to the ground. This was back in the late 70's, and there was quite a hysteria over it. Speeches, demonstrations, marches.... and then it all died down quietly and went away when the Fire Marshall - who was black - pointed to a faulty baptistry heater that had been left running all night in preparation for a Sunday morning baptism.

                  I'm not disputing AT ALL that these - all of these - may have been acts of racist hate in possible retaliation to the fervor over the removal of the Confederate flag or - who knows what else - but it also reminds me of Clinton's "memory" of black Churches being burned all over Arkansas when he was a youth --- After several Arkansans, including the state historian and leaders of several black organizations, disputed Clinton's "vivid and painful memories" of church burnings in Arkansas, Clinton decided to change his story. He then started talking about black community centers being burned, but he couldn't name any.


                  Any individual fire could be an accident, but the pattern is quite obviously clear. Six (I believe, now?) in a week immediately following the Charleston shooting. Bombings and fires through the 1950s and 1960s, a surge of them in the 1990s - all of which are part of a pattern that dates back to the 1800s.

                  It's a sin problem. And it doesn't help that we can't have a conversation about this without somebody pitching a fit and making accusations and finding racism where it doesn't even exist.


                  You see 200 years of church arsons, bombings, police/army action... primarily against black churches and think it's a sin problem? This doesn't seem so much as "finding racism where it doesn't even exist" so much as desperately not trying to see racism where it very much does. Then again there were people trying to say that the Charleston shooter wasn't motivated by anti-blackness despite him literally saying that he hated black people, so I... yeah.

                  One of my associate pastors for 10 years was a black pastor, and he and his wife "Momma" would often be in our Sunday Evening service and sing one of the old hymns of their youth. One of my favorites was "I'm free, Praise the Lord, I am free - no longer bound, no more chains holding me...." One Sunday morning, I made a reference to this, and - God forgive me - I referred to it as a "Negro Spiritual". (there was a time when that wasn't a bad thing at ALL ) WOW, did the fecal material come forcefully into contact with the air circulation device! Not from my own people, but word got out that I was saying the "N word" from the pulpit!
                  I know you're old, but there's no way you were preaching at a time when that word wasn't being challenged as racist. What you mean is that it was socially acceptable...

                  ...to a racist society.

                  We DO have a race problem, but some of it is that we can't even have a CONVERSATION about it, or refer to GOOD things from the past, without somebody blowing a gasket and citing RACISM!!!!!


                  "We do have a race problem, but somehow every concrete example of it that anyone puts forward is obviously just a misunderstanding and people wanting to find racism where it isn't."

                  Pray tell, where exactly do you think this race problem lies, if it isn't in the most obvious and violent white supremacist acts?

                  EDIT: actually, you're going to obfuscate on most of these questions. Answer this last one, so I can nail you to something substantial next time you use the same excuse.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Congratulations on your impending Doctorate, Chrs.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Congratulations on your impending Doctorate, Chrs.
                      <3~

                      I'm going to take that as a "no" :P

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chrs View Post
                        [EDIT: actually, you're going to obfuscate on most of these questions. Answer this last one, so I can nail you to something substantial next time you use the same excuse.
                        I responded before seeing this edit. And I clearly did NOT obfuscate on ANY of those questions, so you're flat out wrong.
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I responded before seeing this edit. And I clearly did NOT obfuscate on ANY of those questions, so you're flat out wrong.
                          My apologies for ever doubting you.

                          Would you like to provide an example of a race issue in the US?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chrs View Post
                            My apologies for ever doubting you.

                            Would you like to provide an example of a race issue in the US?
                            If you'd like to have an actual discussion, and lose the "tone", I'd be happy to oblige. Meanwhile, the grandkids want Chick-Fil-A, so we're going to go do that, first.

                            Racism is hate, Chrs. Hate is sin. We have a sin problem. I have seen racist bigots transformed --- I shared an example of an extreme case, where my friend who was an Islamist grew up hating Jews with a passion, but when she accepted Christ, and was baptized, she said she IMMEDIATELY felt an overwhelming sense of love for the Jewish people, and has gone to Israel multiple times to tell them that, and to serve God there. I have similarly seen racist bigots give up their racism when they accepted the love of Christ, and realized hatred of a fellow human being was sin.

                            Please feel free to continue your mocking, I'm gonna go have lunch with my grankids, then maybe play in the pool.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well, CP beat me to it, but racism is a sin! So, it it a sin problem, with racism being the specific sin in question.
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                              Comment

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