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The Moral Destruction Of The West

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  • Originally posted by Roy View Post
    ...and seer is caught in yet another lie.

    Why does anyone give him any credibility at all?

    Roy
    Again Roy, nonsense. I was looking for Adams' own writings. A lot of nonsense is written about the Founders. Like calling Jefferson a Deist. Yes I have head that before too, but have never seen Jefferson claim that. Just as I haven't read Adams denying the trinity - he may have but I haven't come across it yet.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
      You're stretching.



      Accusing someone of lying is no small thing.
      Roy is a hate filled man when it comes to me. Every slight omission or mistake is elevated to a lie. He is a very ungracious person.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Roy View Post
        I'm not accusing, I'm demonstrating - and not for the first time either.
        I'm going to retract this. Evidence from another thread suggests that seer may instead be too stupid to understand either what he is reading or what he is writing.
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Roy View Post
          I'm going to retract this. Evidence from another thread suggests that seer may instead be too stupid to understand either what he is reading or what he is writing.
          Damning with faint praise...
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            i'm going to retract this. Evidence from another thread suggests that seer may instead be too stupid to understand either what he is reading or what he is writing.
            damning with faint praise...
            QED.

            deformatting prevention
            Last edited by Roy; 07-11-2015, 04:00 PM.
            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Roy View Post
              Not really. He initially claims to never have encountered some datum, and demands references. But as soon as one is provided he changes appproach and claims to have known about it all along, but wants better sources. I'm not accusing, I'm demonstrating - and not for the first time either.

              Roy
              I agree, I'm done with it. No amount of evidence will convince the likes of seer. His presuppositions are an impregnable fortress.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                I agree, I'm done with it. No amount of evidence will convince the likes of seer. His presuppositions are an impregnable fortress.
                You think either you have reached a conclusion without any premise or you did proceed from premises that even seer would accept.
                The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                  So your idea of a moral ascension is segregation and the flourishing of the KKK? No matter how you look at it Americans today are less racist then Americans during your moral plateau.

                  You think abortion and homosexuality are wrong. Many people disagree. How can you be sure that what you believer to be moral and immoral is true?
                  I'm with Psychic Missile on this. I don't think there's been a decline of morals, nor do I think that the slow progression towards agnosticism will result in that, at least in the short run. My agnostic friends generally seem to me to agree more with Jesus on how to live their lives than the average Christian.

                  I'm a bit concerned that current agnostic priorities are to some extent leftovers from Christianity, so I worry whether agnostic values will stay as consistent with Jesus as they are now. However they seem to be shared by secularists from societies where the dominant religion or philosophy is very different, so maybe I'm wrong.

                  Note that I am not selling the myth of eternal progress. I think we've gained in some areas and lost in others, but in total I'd much rather live today (assuming I get to be a prosperous white suburbanite -- an issue we've got to come to grips with) than someone in any past era.

                  Furthermore, the supposed moral destruction thesis rests mostly upon gender / sexual issues about which many Christians would disagree with the OP. In terms of social impact, I'm more worried about the impact of other things that get less publicity, such as our large prison population (mostly because as things are current set up, going to prison pretty much ruins your life permanently), and the increasingly heartless priorities of many of our politicians, driven by a rejection of using evidence in setting policies.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by hedrick View Post
                    I'm with Psychic Missile on this. I don't think there's been a decline of morals, nor do I think that the slow progression towards agnosticism will result in that, at least in the short run. My agnostic friends generally seem to me to agree more with Jesus on how to live their lives than the average Christian.

                    I'm a bit concerned that current agnostic priorities are to some extent leftovers from Christianity, so I worry whether agnostic values will stay as consistent with Jesus as they are now. However they seem to be shared by secularists from societies where the dominant religion or philosophy is very different, so maybe I'm wrong.

                    Note that I am not selling the myth of eternal progress. I think we've gained in some areas and lost in others, but in total I'd much rather live today (assuming I get to be a prosperous white suburbanite -- an issue we've got to come to grips with) than someone in any past era.

                    Furthermore, the supposed moral destruction thesis rests mostly upon gender / sexual issues about which many Christians would disagree with the OP. In terms of social impact, I'm more worried about the impact of other things that get less publicity, such as our large prison population (mostly because as things are current set up, going to prison pretty much ruins your life permanently), and the increasingly heartless priorities of many of our politicians, driven by a rejection of using evidence in setting policies.
                    Louis CK has a bit where he talks about how, as a white person, he could time travel to any period in the past and be assured that he will have a privileged position, while a black person wouldn't want to go any further than a few decades. How far back would you have to go for a black person or a woman to not have a relatively equal quality in terms of societal and global attitudes? Seer and Mountain Man have been blind to that sort of thing.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                      Louis CK has a bit where he talks about how, as a white person, he could time travel to any period in the past and be assured that he will have a privileged position, while a black person wouldn't want to go any further than a few decades. How far back would you have to go for a black person or a woman to not have a relatively equal quality in terms of societal and global attitudes? Seer and Mountain Man have been blind to that sort of thing.
                      Because time travel is perfectly logical...
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                        Because time travel is perfectly logical...
                        Time travel is the vehicle taking you to the point, not the point itself.
                        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          Time travel is the vehicle taking you to the point, not the point itself.
                          It's a fictional jalopy. The point is stupid.
                          That's what
                          - She

                          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                          - Stephen R. Donaldson

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                            It's a fictional jalopy. The point is stupid.
                            You should probably argue against the point, in that case. Jeering at the concept of time travel, when that isn't substantially related to the point, isn't productive.
                            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                              You should probably argue against the point, in that case. Jeering at the concept of time travel, when that isn't substantially related to the point, isn't productive.
                              It is completely substantial. Self-flagellation because of what some long-dead person did to another long-dead person is pure stupidity. We do not live in those times. No one here is suggesting we return to Jim Crowe or colonial era slavery, so expecting an emotional response based on who did what to whom at that time will get nothing more than ridicule. As it deserves.

                              It reminds me of the movie "Timeline". The team discovered a way to travel back to Medieval England, and they had a Frenchman with them. The British soldier ran the Frenchman through without even hearing what he had to say. It highlights the stupidity of the time travel retort. At any given moment earlier than 200 years ago, SOMEONE SOMEWHERE in the world would kill every single one of us. That is no excuse to victimize them or martyr-by-proxy ourselves or those like us.
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              - Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                                It is completely substantial. Self-flagellation because of what some long-dead person did to another long-dead person is pure stupidity. We do not live in those times. No one here is suggesting we return to Jim Crowe or colonial era slavery, so expecting an emotional response based on who did what to whom at that time will get nothing more than ridicule. As it deserves.

                                It reminds me of the movie "Timeline". The team discovered a way to travel back to Medieval England, and they had a Frenchman with them. The British soldier ran the Frenchman through without even hearing what he had to say. It highlights the stupidity of the time travel retort. At any given moment earlier than 200 years ago, SOMEONE SOMEWHERE in the world would kill every single one of us. That is no excuse to victimize them or martyr-by-proxy ourselves or those like us.
                                That's a critique of the point, rather than the literary vehicle!

                                The idea, which remains pointedly relevant, is that one or more racial minorities have suffered generations of discrimination and oppression. That doesn't go away overnight or even inside of a generation, either for the victims or the perpetrators. Even were there to be no current discrimination, the cumulative effect of generational discrimination in the past would remain a relevant factor.

                                Of course, there remains discrimination today so it's a compounding effect.
                                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                                Comment

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