The Moral Destruction Of The West

[seer]

Back in the late 90s I had a brief e-mail exchange with the noted liberal Catholic and gay rights activist Andrew Sullivan. It was in the context of anti-discrimination laws. I knew then that that reasoning, if it held up in the courts, would lead to legal gay marriage. I'm actually surprised that it took so long. So the left won the battle, as they did with gay rights in general and abortion. But, I believe, this will eventually destroy our society. For most of the history of the West, and US in particular, the Christian faith was a powerful force for social cohesion. Even those who were not Christian generally agree that things like homosexuality, adultery, fornication, instant gratification, out of wedlock births, cheating, etc... were wrong - not morally acceptable. As the Christian influence wanes in the West, what will be the godless philosophy or ideals that brings said societal unity? I suspect that what ever it is, it will be totalitarian in nature. As we presently see, to a lesser degree, with the Political Correctness movement and speech codes on campus.

[firstfloor]

Back in the late 90s I had a brief e-mail exchange with the noted liberal Catholic and gay rights activist Andrew Sullivan. It was in the context of anti-discrimination laws. I knew then that that reasoning, if it held up in the courts, would lead to legal gay marriage. I'm actually surprised that it took so long. So the left won the battle, as they did with gay rights in general and abortion. But, I believe, this will eventually destroy our society. For most of the history of the West, and US in particular, the Christian faith was a powerful force for social cohesion. Even those who were not Christian generally agree that things like homosexuality, adultery, fornication, instant gratification, out of wedlock births, cheating, etc... were wrong - not morally acceptable. As the Christian influence wanes in the West, what will be the godless philosophy or ideals that brings said societal unity? I suspect that what ever it is, it will be totalitarian in nature. As we presently see, to a lesser degree, with the Political Correctness movement and speech codes on campus.

Empires come and go. Christendom is in decline. It is obsolete and self destructive because it promotes a deluded sense of the person and reality. There remains the possibility that Christianity is replaced by even more oppressive religious systems of governance such as Islam – on the scale of hundreds of years. What we have to do is distil out of Christianity the parts that are worth keeping and discard the supernatural garbage.

[Bill the Cat]

Empires come and go. Christendom is in decline. It is obsolete and self destructive because it promotes a deluded sense of the person and reality. There remains the possibility that Christianity is replaced by even more oppressive religious systems of governance such as Islam – on the scale of hundreds of years. What we have to do is distil out of Christianity the parts that are worth keeping and discard the supernatural garbage.

Salad bar ethics on display.

[seanD]

As the Christian influence wanes in the West, what will be the godless philosophy or ideals that brings said societal unity?

Technological singularity -- Transhumanism?

[seer]

Technological singularity -- Transhumanism?

Actually I think the progressive movement will be short lived. Islam is the virus that will dominate.

[mossrose]

Empires come and go.

So do republics. And I think the US is on it's way to a deep decline and slow, agonizing death as it destroys itself from within, as Rome did, with a complete loss of morality.

Christendom is in decline. It is obsolete and self destructive because it promotes a deluded sense of the person and reality. There remains the possibility that Christianity is replaced by even more oppressive religious systems of governance such as Islam – on the scale of hundreds of years.

Yeah, I guess, even though it's been around and quite alive for 2000 years.

What we have to do is distil out of Christianity the parts that are worth keeping and discard the supernatural garbage.

And, pray tell, who gets to decide what is worth keeping and what is "supernatural garbage"?

[seanD]

Actually I think the progressive movement will be short lived. Islam is the virus that will dominate.

I seriously doubt it. Transhumanism is science/technological-based (though with a hint of new age spiritualism). The majority of the Islamic world countries haven't even left the stone age yet. Now, whether there is a final climatic clash between religions before transhumanism takes firm hold on society remains to be seen, but if that happens, it's going to be the event that will be the direct contrast of societal unity, much like we're seeing now.

[Cerebrum123]

Actually I think the progressive movement will be short lived. Islam is the virus that will dominate.

While I wouldn't use the word "virus" I do agree that Islam will indeed be the system to take over after Christianity loses it's influence. This is only if things don't change drastically in the near future. That very well could happen.

[seer]

I seriously doubt it. Transhumanism is science/technological-based (though with a hint of new age spiritualism). The majority of the Islamic world countries haven't even left the stone age yet. Now, whether there is a final climatic clash between religions before transhumanism takes firm hold on society remains to be seen, but if that happens, it's going to be the event that will be the direct contrast of societal unity, much like we're seeing now.

I don't think so, it seems that the goals of transhumanism may be unreachable. Or at least they won't be for the near future. Where Islam is bold, aggressive and already having a powerful effect in western countries - especially Europe. Never mind the fact in Europe their birth rate is almost triple that of non-Muslims.

[seanD]

I don't think so, it seems that the goals of transhumanism may be unreachable. Or at least they won't be for the near future. Where Islam is bold, aggressive and already having a powerful effect in western countries - especially Europe. Never mind the fact in Europe their birth rate is almost triple that of non-Muslims.

And this proves my point and disproves what you stated in the OP. As we are clearly seeing, Islam isn't bringing "societal unity" to western countries or even its own countries, it's bringing chaos and conflict.

[Abigail]

Where Islam is bold, aggressive and already having a powerful effect in western countries - especially Europe. Never mind the fact in Europe their birth rate is almost triple that of non-Muslims.

(Inadvertantly) Enabled by progressives who, because of their hatred of Christianity, have favoured any non-Christian in their policies (my enemy's enemy is my friend kind of thinking) and Islam has benefited and flourished.

ps Mohammed was the most popular baby name for boys in UK last year http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...d-9895605.html

See also:http://news.sky.com/story/1383350/br...-name-mohammed

[seer]

And this proves my point and disproves what you stated in the OP. As we are clearly seeing, Islam isn't bringing "societal unity" to western countries or even its own countries, it's bringing chaos and conflict.

Well no, I'm not speaking of social unity here but of dominance. Then there could be forced compliance - like in Iran.

[seer]

(Inadvertantly) Enabled by progressives who, because of their hatred of Christianity, have favoured any non-Christian in their policies (my enemy's enemy is my friend kind of thinking) and Islam has benefited and flourished.

ps Mohammed was the most popular baby name for boys in UK last year http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...d-9895605.html

See also:http://news.sky.com/story/1383350/br...-name-mohammed

Just wonderful.

[seanD]

Well no, I'm not speaking of social unity here but of dominance. Then there could be forced compliance - like in Iran.

Islam is too sectarian to believe that it will fully dominate all western countries. This might theoretically happen in maybe hundreds of years of continuous civil strife and mass population die-offs -- i.e. one Islamic regime eventually dominates and takes over the entire western civil system (a la the Ottoman Empire). But this is simply not plausible in modern western countries in just a matter of years or even decades. I see more and more increased societal disunity and conflict as the spread of transhumanism philosophy offers a "better" alternative for civil order.

[seer]

Islam is too sectarian to believe that it will fully dominate all western countries. This might theoretically happen in maybe hundreds of years of continuous civil strife and mass population die-offs -- i.e. one Islamic regime eventually dominates and takes over the entire western civil system (a la the Ottoman Empire). But this is simply not plausible in modern western countries in just a matter of years or even decades. I see more and more increased societal disunity and conflict as the spread of transhumanism philosophy offers a "better" alternative for civil order.

I don't buy this at all. Islam is winning in western Europe by demographics, westerners are just not having kids. Even is there is strife in Islam, they will dominate.