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SCOTUS Rules 5-4 for Gay Marriage

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    Ordained religious ministers in Canada are not required to marry same-sex couples. That has been the case in all countries to legalize same-sex marriage thus far. Please don't spread false rumors.

    The only exemptions have been when the government or council employs a person specifically to conduct civil marriages. Often the decision has been that that person, by virtue of the fact that they are employed by the taxpayer and not by a church be required to marry both straight and gay people as part of their job.

    No one is going into churches and forcing unwilling clergy to marry gay couples. Not in any country. It's not a thing. So cease and desist with your false fear-mongering.


    What difference does it make if the pastor is working for the city/county/province/state or working in their own church? This woman is not an employee of the city of Cambridge, Ontario, but is contracted to perform civil marriages. She has been told that she will have to perform ss marriages or be fired from her contract. She is even willing to refer ss couples to others who have no problems with performing the ceremonies, but, no, that isn't good enough.

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/on...es-or-get-sack

    This is a very telling quote from the article:

    The Cambridge Record reports that Dana Christiaen of the region’s AIDS committee said that forcing ministers to perform same-sex weddings was a core issue for the gay and lesbian community, while homosexual activist Allison Rogers said allowing a different official to perform Cambridge’s same-sex weddings was “deplorable.”

    Christiaen’s comment reveals that the heart of the issue of “gay marriage” may be more than forcing a Christian minister to perform a function that is expressly forbidden by her church.
    And another quote from the same article:

    “Christians are often asked by gay activists why they oppose same-sex “marriage.” “How does our marriage hurt you?” they ask,” Metaxas wrote.

    “Well, I can think of one significant way it will hurt us: It will destroy religious freedom and free speech rights.”

    Metaxas referred to the statement by Michael Coren of the National Review Online who said, “there have been between 200 and 300 [legal] proceedings … against critics and opponents of same-sex marriage. It’s becoming obvious that Christian people, leaders, and organizations are being targeted, almost certainly to create legal precedents.
    And in Canada, a pastor was arrested for sending a letter to a newspaper criticizing sodomy. Thankfully a sane judge overturned the stupid ruling by the "Alberta Human Rights Commission" (aka Kangaroo Court) and acquitted the pastor.

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/pa...-canada-42190/
    A Canadian judge last week exonerated a former pastor who was charged of committing a hate crime for sending a letter to a local newspaper criticizing homosexuality.

    Judge E.C. Wilson overturned a 2008 ruling by the Alberta Human Rights Commission that ordered former Alberta pastor Stephen Boissoin to stop all public criticisms of homosexuality and to pay the plaintiff $5,000 in damages, according to The Canadian Press.

    Wilson ruled on Friday that the 2002 letter, which carried the headline “Homosexual agenda wicked,” was not a hate crime but is permissible under freedom of speech.
    Sweden:

    http://www.thebereancall.org/node/434

    STOCKHOLM, July 5, 2004 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Ake Green, the pastor of a Swedish Pentecostal church in Kalmar, Sweden, has been sentenced to one month in prison by a Swedish court, for inciting hatred against homosexuals. Green was prosecuted in January for "hate speech against homosexuals" for a sermon he preached last summer citing Biblical references to homosexuality.

    During a sermon in 2003, Green described homosexuality as "abnormal, a horrible cancerous tumour in the body of society".

    Sweden passed an equivalent to Canada's Bill C-250 last year -- a "hate crimes" law that forbids criticism of homosexuality. In a WorldNetDaily article, the author quotes from the church newspaper Kyrkans Tidning, in which the prosecutor in the case, Kjell Yngvesson, justifies the arrest of Pastor Green: "One may have whatever religion one wishes, but this is an attack on all fronts against homosexuals. Collecting Bible cites on this topic as he (Pastor Green) does makes this hate speech."
    Canada again:

    http://www.sodahead.com/living/in-ca...stion-1730423/


    In Canada hate speech laws have accounted for a pastor being arrested for speaking against homosexuality to his congregation. Should the U.S. Constitution's free speech ammendment protect our speech rights to speak against homosexuality ?
    And Canada:

    http://christiannews.net/2013/02/28/...-a-hate-crime/

    Ottawa, Ontario — The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that Biblical speech opposing homosexual behavior, including in written form, is essentially a hate crime.

    On Wednesday, the court upheld the conviction of activist William Whatcott, who found himself in hot water after distributing flyers regarding the Bible’s prohibitions against homosexuality throughout the Saskatoon and Regina neighborhoods in 2001 and 2002. The 7-judge panel consisted of Justices Beverly McLachlin, Louis LeBel, Marie Deschamps, Morris Fish, Rosalie Abellia, Marshall Rothstein and Thomas Cromwell.
    And there are myriads of other examples, not just here, but in Europe AND the US. It all starts with lack of free speech, and goes from there.......the so-called slippery slope is indeed in place and getting steeper and slipperier.

    You are NOT going to piffle this all away with your "well, it hasn't happened yet, stop your fear-mongering". It IS happening, it is GOING to happen and soon no Christian will be able to say anything against sodomy and it's ilk, and no Christian pastor is going to be able to decline performing ss marriages without being prosecuted.
    Last edited by mossrose; 06-26-2015, 05:50 PM.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

    Comment


    • #92
      Scalia is often quite quotable: "Until the courts put a stop to it, public debate over same-sex marriage displayed American democracy at its best. The five Justices who compose today's majority are entirely comfortable concluding that every State violated the Constitution for all of the 135 years between the Fourteenth Amendment's ratification and Massachusetts' permitting of same-sex marriages in 2003."

      Comment


      • #93
        Here's one from the States, pastor arrested IN HIS pulpit!

        http://www.conservativetruth.org/arc...07-28-02.shtml

        July 28, 2002

        by Tom Barrett, Editor@ConservativeTruth.org

        “NEW YORK CITY: The Rev. Joseph Jenkins was arrested today as he preached to his congregation of 500. As he said, ‘The Bible says it is a sin for a man to lie with a man!’ four federal undercover agents rose from their seats in the crowded church and handcuffed the pastor. He was later charged before a US Magistrate under the federal ‘Hate Crimes’ law.”

        “Far-fetched! Impossible! That will never happen!” Not at all. There are forces at work in this nation to deny every citizen the right to say, publicly or privately, what they know or believe to be true if it does not fit within politically correct guidelines. Ministers or rabbis who proclaim the clear teachings of the Bible regarding homosexuality will be jailed if these forces have their way. Anyone who expresses an unpopular ideology will be persecuted.


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
          Mossrose lives in Canada I take her word over yours Starlight who says one thing and who's actions show the opposite.
          I think Starlight ought to stick with what he knows about his own country, and stop trying to be an authority on others' countries. He wants SO BADLY to be relevant in the rest of the world.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by whag View Post
            No you didn't.
            Yes, I did.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
              Denmark has a law that requires the institution to perform same sex marriages. The leftists on the SCOTUS seem to LOOOOOVE what Europe does, so it won't be long before the "quacks" win again.
              The State Lutheran Church performs homosexual wedding ceremonies. Individual ministers can opt out of doing one if their conscience obliges them to.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                The State Lutheran Church performs homosexual wedding ceremonies. Individual ministers can opt out of doing one if their conscience obliges them to.
                How long has that been the policy? Is it one of those "for now" things, to make it more palatable?
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Why do some people think that saying homosexual acts are a sin is a hate crime on the level of murdering homosexuals?
                  If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    How long has that been the policy? Is it one of those "for now" things, to make it more palatable?
                    In Denmark there's a Minister of the Church in the parliament. Last time it was the non-Christian Manu Sareen, who had it as one of his great big political goals to put it into law that the State Church permitted homosexual weddings. It does now, and as long as there's one priest willing to marry gay couples, they can not be denied a venue in any of the State Church buildings.

                    Its been that way since 2012.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                      Why do some people think that saying homosexual acts are a sin is a hate crime on the level of murdering homosexuals?
                      Because They hate the TRUTH. they want to call evil good and good evil.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                        What difference does it make if the pastor is working for the city/county/province/state or working in their own church?
                        If a pastor voluntarily chooses to take a job working for the city/county/province/state, it is reasonable that the city/county/province/state to be able to set certain conditions about what that job entails. Any pastor who doesn't like the job is obviously free not to take it. I've got no sympathy for whiners who refuse to do the job they're being employed to do.

                        That's just totally different to the notion of the government forcing pastors to perform same-sex marriages against their will in their own churches.

                        The rest of the articles you cite in that post are about hate-speech... good bar-shifting, littlepixieofterror would be proud.

                        Here's one from the States, pastor arrested IN HIS pulpit!
                        No. You're misreading it. The guy is suggesting that as a possible future scenario that he thinks might happen.
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          No one is going into churches and forcing unwilling clergy to marry gay couples. Not in any country. It's not a thing. So cease and desist with your false fear-mongering.
                          I'm more worried about the Catholic Church buildings suddenly being declared public venues because they're often open to the public, and therefore 'a place you can have a wedding'. And since its a nice wedding place, its what it looks like in the movies... I can imagine a googly eyed couple out there who wants a flowery wedding in a place with statues of saints and angels, and painted windows.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            In Denmark there's a Minister of the Church in the parliament. Last time it was the non-Christian Manu Sareen, who had it as one of his great big political goals to put it into law that the State Church permitted homosexual weddings. It does now, and as long as there's one priest willing to marry gay couples, they can not be denied a venue in any of the State Church buildings.

                            Its been that way since 2012.
                            Is there any chance that the Church of Denmark would disassociate itself from the central government? And if not over this particular issue (gay marriage), how far would the secular legal system have to move for such a dissociation to occur?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                              Why do some people think that saying homosexual acts are a sin is a hate crime on the level of murdering homosexuals?
                              It is well documented that cumulative experiences of prejudice and discrimination lead to a high level of suicide in minority groups. This is generally a significant motivation for the enactment of hate-speech laws that limit the degree people are allowed to say negative things in public about minority groups. The perpetuation of false negative stereotypes of minorities can also incite persecution and instances of violence against them.
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                                I'm more worried about the Catholic Church buildings suddenly being declared public venues because they're often open to the public, and therefore 'a place you can have a wedding'. And since its a nice wedding place, its what it looks like in the movies... I can imagine a googly eyed couple out there who wants a flowery wedding in a place with statues of saints and angels, and painted windows.
                                Let em have em. From a historical perspective, it'd be sad to see, but God doesn't live in a building. He's bigger than that.

                                Comment

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